What would my bike act like if I had a bad coil or 2? - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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What would my bike act like if I had a bad coil or 2?

Would the idle sound like a mini VTwin? With that sort of broken idle sound? It doesnt have that buzz that an I4 has. Im not able to start the bike unless I throttle it up a bit. The idle doesnt hold, but that could also be because the idle screw is possibly stuck, Im not sure. Lots of smoke and fire coming out the exhaust as well. Sound like a coil problem to anyone? I have the xtended warrenty and its going in on Sat morning, but Im trying to figure it out myself.

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 07:44 PM
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Do you have an alarm on the bike? I fos sometimes it can interfere with your other wiring and short something out.

Just let them take care of it. Sounds like an idle screw
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 08:09 PM
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This sounds like a bad fuel pressure regulator. These are the symptoms on a Honda when the regulator goes out: only stays runnin by opening the throttle, kind of sounds like a V twin because without sufficient fuel pressure in the rail, fuel leaks down the inside 2 cyclinders causing them to flood and not fire, once in a while they will fire resulting in a flame out the tail pipe (sometimes up the throttle bodies) and black smoke (excess fuel in chamber). I've seen this exact problem on a few Hondas (these symptoms are because of the design of Honda's fuel rail/injector set up from the looks of it). I dont think bad coils would cause this because usually they either are working fine or go out completly (rarely malfunction intermittently). Fouled plugs could also be the culprit here. Let us know what the dealer finds ...
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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with this fuel regulator problem... Could it come and go? I had an issue similar to this last year, but after I cleared the bike's throat with some revs up to 15K redline, the problem went away. It stayed gone until a few weeks back and it started up again and I havent been able to clear the throat and the bike is laided up.
Not the plugs, I changed them already to eliminate them.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2006, 08:32 PM
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Nah, usually the regualtor just goes bad and wont keep a constant PSI in the rail. Sounds like you could have excessive carbon build up in your chambers (top of pistons, head, valve heads, etc) or through the throttle bodies. A clogged or dirty fuel filter could also give you these same problems ...
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Anything I can put in the fuel to break up the carbon? I really dont think its the carbon build up though. I think its either the coil or the fuel pressure reg liek you said. There would have to be a ton of carbon build up in there to create this big of a problem.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 12:26 AM
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bdiddy, have you had it running ok after you changed the plugs?
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 10:39 AM
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How long did the bike sit? Did you put fuel stabilizer in it before you stored it? You may just have bad gas in it because it sounds like that may have been the problem the first time.


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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Changed the plugs and it didnt fix the problem so it def wasnt fouled plugs.

It sat all winter with fuel stabilizer in it. I had been riding weekends since the begining of March. It ran fine for like a month and a half or so before it started doing this. Shouldnt be bad gas because Ive put 93 in from a place that I have never had a problem with. Ive filled up once since the problem started, before it got really bad. The way this problem started was like this:

I went to go ride with my friends, bike started fine and rode fine until I got to a stop light. Then when I pulled the clutch in, the idle was low. Below 1000 RPM at about 500-750. My normal idle is 1500. I turned up the idle as a quick fix and went riding for the day. However the problem kept getting worse and worse. By the time I got home a few hours later, the bike was just really bad. I tried to clean it out by rev it up high to break up carbon or moving gas faster thorugh the injectors, but it didnt work this time. Fire, smoke, broken idle, all these problems came up. I actually had a fireball burning in the exhaust. AfterI reved up the bike and let it idle, the bike shut off, i went around and check the back and there was a fireball ball buring in the exhaust. Thats where I am now. The bike is up on the stand and sitting.

Changed out the plugs, tried a power commander. Nothing happen with either fix.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 01:04 PM
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Well, I'm stumped. I'd say go with Apex's suggestion. He's always given great advice even if he is a stunter.

It definitely sounds like a fuel pressure or Throttle body issue. You haven't had the TB's off for any reason have you?


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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 01:04 PM
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Sounds like one way or another you're not firing (completely at least) in all cylinders and unburned fuel is being pushed through the exhaust system and igniting in the pipes. I would suggest inspecting the ignition system (from the plug caps/coils back), fuel system (injectors, fuel rail, fuel pressure reg., fuel lines, fuel pump and fuel filter) and even the air system (throttle bodies and air filter). Something is causing your bike to run extra rich. Are you sure you put the correct spark plus caps on the correct cylinders?
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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TBs have never been off the bike.

I took the coils off one at a time and replaced them as I went to make sure that wasnt a problem. checked the Air filter, it wasnt brand new, but it wasnt clogged up or anything like that.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:31 PM
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Have you checked the fuel system like I was saying? I got my money on that. It's always best to troubleshoot with a perfectly running 600RR (or even F4i's have compatable parts I've found) so that you can take parts off of it and swap with your bike to find the bad part. Let us know what happens after you've checked ALL things we've suggested ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRedRider
Well, I'm stumped. I'd say go with Apex's suggestion. He's always given great advice even if he is a stunter.
Hahah shut up NewRedRider, just cuz i like to mess around on my bike in a different way than most people doesn't mean i dont know wtf im talkin about! haha just messin w/ ya, to tell ya the truth i've been thinkin of pickin up a track bike when i sell my stunt bike. Been to a track day once on a 636 and LOVED it, but seems like track days every weekend would get REAL expensive ... stunting is free as hell!
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Nah Im in the NYC all week and my bike is in CT so I cant do much to it. Im just trying to troubleshoot the bike for the shop since they are doing me a favor and fitting me in because otherwise Id be off a bike for at least a month. Im trying to come up with some things they can check right off the bat. I have all the plastics off and thats how Im taking it over so they dont have to waste time taking the stuff off.


Actually to tell you the truth, most stunters I know know more than the racers because the stunt bikes get beat up a hell of alot faster than the race bikes.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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Well tell the dealer to check the fuel pressure right off the bat. That's should be easy enough for them.


Damn Apex. It took you that long to catch that.


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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:55 PM
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You might as well pop the air box off for them as long as you're not riding it over there. I'm pretty sure its goin to be something malfunctioning in the fuel system/throttle body. Even if it is an ignition problem, it's much easier to access the coils and all that with that big @ss air box out of the way. Heads up - the air box is wrapped with the ECU and all the main wiring so it can be a b!tch to get it all out of the way. Also, be careful removing the upper fuel rail/injectors and not damaging the MAS (which im told is very fragile).
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRedRider
Damn Apex. It took you that long to catch that.
Hahah damnit NoobRider, you're just too fast for me! I take forever writing up my posts, then revising them, then finalizing (haha ya im a perfectionist when it comes it). I'm always tryin to post up my suggestions before you because they're usually the exact same thing haha!
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yea Ive had the whole bike apart a few times for maintance. The coils are accessed by dropping the radiator down a few inches. I only installed the upper mounts again and left the lower one off so its pretty easy to take a look at. As it stands now, they get the bike with only the tail cowl and the front cowl. Lowers, side and tank cover are all off.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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So I dropped the bike off at the dealer last Sat, May 6... Gave them a week and called them yesterday. I heard the words you dont ever want to hear from the dealer when you cant tech your own bike. Um we have ben teching it out all week and we still dont know what the problem is...

So Ill call them again in a week. See whats up then.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 09:43 PM
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Haha o sh!t! Sometimes when a bike is giving you a real headache trying to diagnose a problem it turns out to be something REALLY simple. Then again, it could be something really bad. To make you sleep easier at night, every single time ive come across a problem that took me over a day to figure out the cause it turned out to be the stupidest fix ever!! Good luck and keep us posted.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Nah Im not worried about it. They have 12 days to figure it out and fix it. Im woring at my grandparents house next weekend so no time to ride. So all this week, weekend and next week. Besides, I should REALLY study for finals next week as well...

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-14-2006, 10:25 PM
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Well at least you wont be SUPER pissed that you wont be able to ride. Damn dude our finals were last week, got all summer to chiiiiiiill untill next semester starts Aug. 20th ... but ya study man, i fukced up my english final haha
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-15-2006, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Yea i go to a NYC University so we go till the end of May. I didnt get my Spring Break until April 12. I got 12 days off, but with the mild winter here, nothing was open to ski and I couldnt get any deals to go to FLorida because Spring break is in March! Stupid Easter/Passover.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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So it seems the power commander was the problem. They said it blew up. Which makes no sense since the bike was running like crap BEFORE the power commander was on. They took it off and they say it runs great now. Which is stupid since they told me to install the power commander.

So now what do I do with the power commander? Wasnt there a problem with some of them? Maybe I got a problematic one. Anyone remember anything about the problems with the power commander?

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 06:49 PM
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Well if the PC is defective tell them to send it back to dynojet and get a new one. Then put it on yourself so you know it's done right. They may have installed it on the upper injectors for all you know. But get the PC they took off.


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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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I did the install myself and got the PCIII from Jamie over at FuelMotoUSA. Guess Ill be calling Dynojet myself tomorrow

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:05 PM
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How old is the PC?


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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Supposed to be brand new. I am sending it back to Dyno Jet for servicing this week after finals.

Called them and they had never heard of any firmware problems with the 03-04 600rr PCIIIs.

This whole electrical thing is starting to piss me off. Makes me want to buy a Harley or a build a custom with a carb.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:09 PM
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Who knows if it was something they (the dealer) did or something electrical in the PC. Maybe they plugged the PC into the upper injectors. Maybe they didn't plug one of the coil wires in good. What map did they install when the PC was on there and what mods do you have?


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-03-2006, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Well it seems that there was a problem with my TPS sensor. I havent picked my bike up yet, no worries, its raining all weekend here in the North East. Last I heard was that they had sent the TPS specs to Honda and were waiting to hear back. When I called them back I got some clown on the phone. I dont mind clowning around with a couple of the guys there, because they have earned it, but I dotn know who this guy was and it def wasnt one of the guys that can clown around on me. Maybe its the dude who's gf I put the moves on before I found out they were dating... Glad he wasnt working on my bike. :P

Anyway, Ill be picking it up next week sometime and ripping it up all weekend to test it. Ill ask and post what the problem was when I get a real answer.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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