Another 03' won't start - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2015, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Another 03' won't start

Hello all,

My 03' 600RR refuses to kick over and start. Before you tell me to use the search function, let me tell you how I've diagnosed it so far. A little background on me, I have an A.S. in Automotive Sci and have worked as a CA Smog Tech for years, I am no stranger to figuring out why crap don't work. So, backstory... started the bike up for a minute or two the night before work, starts as always. Next morning, I go to start it up. All cranks and no start. So, when I get chance to take a look at the bike, I can't find the test plug that the manual claimed would be in the battery/main fuse area (pulled off tail section and dug around some and found it at later date). I went on to check for spark and removed and grounded to plugs they were fine. The fact the bike crancked without weird noise confirmed timing was okay. Next step, check for fuel. Pump primes at start up just fine and with the relay grounded it is more than capable of delivering the required fuel. What's next? I suspected a bad ground somewhere for the injectors because they clearly were not being pulsed. This whole time while cranking not once, did I smell fuel from the tailpipe, I should have smelled a lot if fuel was injecting. Next step is the cam pulse gen (can't read codes and can't test without a peak voltage tester. Then I found the stupid ass test plug. I have codes 12,13,14,15,16,17 and 1 or two in the 40's. These codes were all for my fuel injectors, primary and secondary (injector circuit malfunction). Next test in the manual is testing the ECU for ground and resistance with special testing harnesses that can't be bought and checking injectors for battery voltage. I can follow the injector harness all the way to the ecu harnesses with no breaks anywhere. I am leaning kinda heavy on the ECU but, would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Thanks to all
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2015, 02:50 PM
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Holy hell man. It's refreshing to see a "sh!t don't start" thread with solid diagnosis done so far. The pulse generator was the first thing I thought of too as the culprit but it looks like (I'm looking at my '05 wiring here) both sets of the injectors share a ground with the fan control relay, the engine stop relay, the fuel cut relay, and a purge control solenoid valve. Whatever that is... Take a look at those to make sure you have both power AND ground available to the injectors. Outside of that, you may be right and your ECU is probably cooked.

Though it looks like there's also a shared ground between all that and pin 16 at the "B" connector to the ECU and the ignition coils get their feed from that too. It's a black/white wire. You said the coils are working fine so it probably is the ECU that for some god forsaken reason decided to quit.

Edit: If you feel ballsy crack it open and see what's roasted. I managed to fix a buddy's Vmax that had a fried ECU that was continuously powering all of the ignitors. Turned out the glass diodes exploded in there.

Last edited by Lyoha; 03-27-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2015, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick reply, according to Mr. wiring diagram, there are a few important things on that ground circuit. Fan and fuel cut off relay, all injectors and purge control solenoid. Power for #11,12,13,14 (primary injectors A) and 1,2,3,4, (secondary B) are all grounded by #16 (B) with a host of other things. It doesn't make sense to me that I have a code for all injectors when they are both two different circuits grounded by the same pin, unless the primary injectors showing this are "driving" the secondaries to show the code. Looking at the diagram, the fan and fuel relay, purge control and primary injectors receive power from connector A, I only have codes for the injectors. I think I'll be checkin the pins at the ECU and checking for 12V at each injector. Then, I guess all that's left is replacement of the ECU. I guess it's possible to fry one part of the computer. Done it with amplifiers and various circuit boards before.

Thanks again

Last edited by skippyg22; 03-27-2015 at 03:44 PM.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2015, 04:24 PM
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I doubt you'll be able to catch the 12v pulse at the injectors with a run of the mill multimeter. The pulse might be too short for the digital multimeter to register. If you have access to one, try using an analogue volt meter. the needle should move slightly with each pulse, although doubtfully to the full 12v. At least then you'll know for sure that the injectors are getting SOME power, or none. It shouldn't be a surprise that both banks would stop working if their common ground is open somewhere. Doesn't matter where you feed the power from, if there's nowhere for it to drain, it just won't go anywhere to begin with.

Just for sh!ts and giggles, why not pull one of the injectors and give it a direct 12v zap? See if it squirts any gas with the bike turned on as if you're getting ready to fire it up? If that works then you're certainly not getting the power to them from the ECU.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2015, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyoha View Post
I doubt you'll be able to catch the 12v pulse at the injectors with a run of the mill multimeter. The pulse might be too short for the digital multimeter to register.
When checking for 12V at the injector, i meant the test in the manual.

"Turn the ignition switch ON and engine stop switch to ON
Measure the voltage between injector connector and ground.

Is there voltage?
Yes- open circuit in SIGNAL LINE wire
No- open circuit in POWER INPUT LINE wire"

I expect there will be voltage and will be traced up the signal line to the black connector. Just narrowing down to the connecter and and taking another look before throwing a part I was trained to suspect absolutely last. Unlike most forum topics I see, I will post the fix, once she fires up.

Thanks,
Jason
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Back to zero

Installed my new to ECM and it primed and cranked and I smelled fuel for the first time in forever. Then, I stopped smelling fuel. I now have an additional code for the vss. That wont keep the bike from running. WTF.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 10:00 AM
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So wai. The new ECM did it's job for a little while, then you got all the injector faults back AND the vss on top of it all? Might be a long shot but the yellow ground box does connect to both the ECM and the VSS. Take a look at it's condition. Those like to melt and cause all sorts of electrical issues.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Little yellow ground box?

Wow! Thanks for keeping up with this thread. I have read of this little yellow ground box. It appears that it's only on the 05-06 models. All my grounds terminate with a bolt holding it to the chassis right next to the fuse box. I did find part of the harness that looked kind of crushed with all that electrical tape still in tact. It's part of the harness that passes over the injector whatnot an branches off towards the rear on the left side of the bike. I always have issues with things no one else ever has, geez.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2015, 03:17 PM
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You're not alone on this one. I ran my '03 back in November/December to run fuel stabilizer through it for about 10 minutes. I went to start it a month ago (March) and I have the same issue, the engine cranks fine but won't start. I thought I should be able to smell fuel from the exhaust but there was nothing. I pulled one of my spark plugs (what a pain in the ass) and the plug was dry and when I grounded it and cranked the engine, there is a spark.
With the ignition switch on and the the kill switch in the "run" position, the fuel pump DOES prime. I went through some trouble shooting procedures like bypassing the bank angle sensor, checking for voltage at my Engine stop relay, and swapping a couple of the relays around, and they all seemed to check out. Plus, when looking at the wiring schematic, it looks like if either the Engine-Stop Relay or the Fuel Cut-Off Relay were faulty, the fuel pump would NOT prime, which it does.
I siphoned out my fuel tank and removed it so that I can remove my fuel pump and check for any blockage in the packing/screen or whatever kind of filtration system it has. Since I don't have a code-reader or anything I haven't gone further into troubleshooting the ECU. Looking forward to your updates since I'll be away for a week and won't be touching this nightmare.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry you're having a similar or maybe the same issue. If you want the codes, there should be a little red plug under the seat. Just put a wire in the plug between the green and brown wires. I always do this with the ignition off. Once those wires are shorted, turn on the ignition with kill switch on , then flick to run. If that doesn't work, keep flipping that switch and at some point you should see the red light flash in on the display. If your test plug is not seen under the seat, check under the tail section on the left. I found mine next to the rubber cover. Get those codes and good luck to you.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-07-2015, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Update

There is a little yellow plug that looks identical to the 05-06, just not in the easy to access spot like the 05-06. It's under the tank up against the frame in a jumble of harness. That is the next and hopefully last issue that needs tackling. Sorry for doubting Lyoha.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 09:43 AM
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No worries, I actually prefer to be second guessed. I've been shown plenty of time wrong on here before.

I do hope that it turns out to be something as simple as that sh!tty yellow box for you and not an issue with the wires in a harness somewhere.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2015, 12:59 AM
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Did you find the issue in the yellow plug skippyg22?
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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No, haven't touched it since I found the ground block. It is a PITA to get to and since it's nice and clean, I don't think that's the problem. I should start following the wires coming out of the plug. Currently tho, I'm fit to push this thing off a cliff and walk away.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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Bike is now fixed, I replaced the cam sensor and no start. Gave up for a bit and came back a week later. Noticed crank sensor not connected. Must have happened when my buddy was poking around. Hooked the battery up to my car and started cranking. It sounded like it wanted to start so, kept cranking. Eventually it came back to life. She is back and now I'm sittin in the hospital with my wife to deliver our son. Might be off the bike for a while again.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 12:46 PM
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Good fortune for the new family member!

Good t/s thread!
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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We'll, no longer waiting for baby, he's here. Our little ambiguously ethnic baby arrived yesterday morning. Next on the to do list is pray for sleep, this kid's a vampire. :-)
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skippyg22 View Post
We'll, no longer waiting for baby, he's here. Our little ambiguously ethnic baby arrived yesterday morning. Next on the to do list is pray for sleep, this kid's a vampire. :-)
Congrats. I have 5 kids, out of them all, the twins were the easiest to handle.

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