CBR600RR Won't rev on high RPM - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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CBR600RR Won't rev on high RPM

Hey guys, seeking for help with my 2003 cbr600rr with 76.000km on it. At some point in this season it stopped reving after 10k, opening the throttle after that point is only choking the bike and it's pretty annoying: not only i can't go past 150, but i can't do fast overtakes on a highway cuz it's choking even before 10k if you open the throttle enough. Main simptom - lean mixture (i've checked spark plugs and they were white as snow, one even had missing electrode, my guess is it's during the high temp and even detonation in the cylinder). So, i know what you might say, "it's the fuel pressure, check it first" and i'm glad to do so, if only i or someone near me had the appropriate tools and fittings (in all fuel line there is not one clamp installed, only bolts).
What i did already:
1. Replaced the fuel pump (two of them actually), didn't change anything
2. Cleaned fuel lines with carb cleaner and compressed air. nothing. (after that step and the last pump replacement i was actually able to rev to the 15k without load, thought that i did it, but test drive showed that problem was still there)
3. Tried to unplug MAP sensor (my hope was that if the measurements from map was wrong but not wrong enough to give me error code, maybe with some basic ones from ecm i will see the difference). nothing
4. Measured the resistance on fuel injectors

That's all for now. Maybe you have some better idea, idk what else to do without proper tools
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 09:54 AM
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I had a similar problem on my 08 at 9k rpm, but it was the fuel pump.

First time rider over 40. Finally made it!
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Well, i still think that it IS fuel pump, but it seems that no shop near me has proper equipment to check that theory. The last pump i've installed is from ERA with a PN 770093, which is exactly 3.5 bar of pressure and even have a little extra to the flow, but it's made from chineseum and i'm taking this to a count.

Last edited by madmorze; 06-24-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2017, 11:04 AM
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I was able to get two used OEM ones off ebay for about 30 bucks each. They both flowed better than my original pump which had 36,000 miles on it and had cleaner fuel strainers.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-28-2017, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: So, more and more i think that it's not the fuel pump, but something else (FPR maybe?). This is the video of FP test that guys back in the shop sent me few days ago (sorry for the shitty quality) https://youtu.be/VDTazTu0_Wk
Since then i changed 3 different fuel pumps, the last one was, thank's to the guys from walbro, the badass one gss342, made for 500hp+ engines and capable of 255 liters per hour flow with a pressure of 8 bar and guess what? Same thing with the pressure drop and after awhile the pump starts to make noises like it's pumping air (whaaaa?). So, back to square one i guess.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-30-2017, 01:07 AM
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I had an issue with my '06 and the fuel pump last year. It also crapped out on the top end. Original OE pump from '06 w/39K on it.

I removed the red strainer from the pump and discarded it. I cleaned the filter sock on the pumo and voila - bounces off the rev limiter in every gear.

Fast forward a year and top speed dropped from 238 to 222 and on the last run, 212 Engine is also a bit rough from 7K up and felt lean.

Had an aftermarket pump here (new Chinese from Caltric) and put it in. Took some work as it's not identical. Went out for test ride - miraculous. Hit 242 and it was still pulling. Roughness at 7K was gone and I was back to bouncing off the rev limiter.

That lasted two days. On day two, in a neighboring town, I pulled in for fuel and shortly after the pump died. I figure thermal shock caused the Chinese pump to fail. Ended up replacing the Chinese pump on the side of the road with the old OE pump to get it home.

Ordered an OE pump for +/- $320 USD. With a new OE assembly you get a new pump, a new pressure regulator, a new housing (which tends to get crapified over time) and two new filters along with a new sending unit. You also get piece of mind when you're many miles from home in an area where there is little traffic an no houses.

The Chinese pump hit 242, can't wait to see what a new OE pump with clean strainers and a new pressure regulator does for the bike.

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 09:34 PM
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This is good info, I have the same problem I think.

Can you make any recommendations on a fuel pump?

I already bought a second hand pump as the first one was completely dead but now I have this problem.

I also have high pressure inside my tank after few laps at my local track.

The pressure buildup was so much that the cap blew off when I unlocked it
It is a non OEM cap and I checked the breather hoses and they are not pinched.

I see these chinese/japanese KENSO pumps all over ebay but I am affraid to try them because of what you said about it dieing.
a brand new OEM pump wouldn't be cheap but do you think that is my only option here?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 09:52 PM
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If it's only a track bike and it's not critical if the pump fails then you can always risk it on a Kenso pump. But, if you must have top performance or use the bike to go into distant mountains then I would go OE only. I also hated doing it but the Chinese pump failed within 2 days and left me stuck. Had I not fixed it on the side of the road the tow bill would have been several hundred....

I believe the pump from a 1993 Mazda Miata might be the same (Mitsubishi) but in the end, how much time do you want to waste screwing around? If you want to get top speed from your bike you have to have proper pressure and flow. If you want to ride to distant places, you have to have reliability.

If you have high pressure in the tank then it's not vented properly. Fix that first.

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Guys! Guys! I figured it out! It was fuel pressure regulator inside fuel module that was messing with me :) I made a video about my experience and will upload it in a few days (i hope). But for now i'l need to find a replacement for FPR or for the module itself. Basically i just removed top part of fuel module (one with FPR and fuel level attached) and connected original fuel pump directly to the fuel line and it's gone! Sure, i lost some power at the bottom half and i think it's because of the overflow, but at the top RPM it's beast again! Here's the photo of that little bastard.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 12:25 AM
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Really eagerly awaiting your video or instructions as I suspect my 2005 cbr600rr doesn't have the FPR outside of the fuel pump assembly.

So it seems like changing the FPR is not really possible on an 05 ?
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 12:45 AM
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The FPR on all of them, as far as I know, is part of the module. It is removable.

Some of the notions in this thread are really dangerous. The FPR is designed to regulate the fuel pressure. Many of the bikes do not have an 02 sensor so they cannot tell if they are rich or lean and cannot adjust the injectors accordingly. They run in open loop all the time.

Removing the FPR will mean the engine is rich a lot of the time. This means it can get way too much fuel. This means you may well have to drain the fuel from your oil in the crankcase. The FPR and the pump's ratings are carefully designed to provide a precise amount of fuel because Honda knew the engine could not correct for rich/lean conditions when running.

In short, the engine has been designed to run on a specific amount of fuel/pressure. A known quantity. When that quantity is off the engine will either be rich or lean. The computer has no way to tell which. It will not turn on a light on the dash. It will just keep running, whether rich or lean until such time as damage occurs.

This, coupled with the questionable reliability of the 3rd party pump I used, and the chances of being stuck on the side of the road, which did happen to me 2 days after installing the 3rd party pump, led me to break down and buy the entire module.

When you buy the module you get two new filters (the red life jacket and the pump sock) and you get a new FPR and you get a new module which does actually get dirty inside and is hard to clean. Bottom line, if the rider replaces the entire assembly with a new module you can be sure the engine is getting the proper amount of fuel assuming the rest of the system (injectors mostly) are operating properly. You also decrease the chance of being stuck in the midle of no-where, with no cell service!

On top of that, you will always know that your engine is not being damaged by running lean or rich, which it cannot correct for.

So you tell me, do you think the magic bullet is removing the FPR ???? This, just coming from someone that installed a 3rd party pump, got two days out it, was left stuck on the side of the road, and understands the dangers of running rich and lean, which the ECU cannot compensate for.

Can you determine the exact specs of the original pump to match it to the 3rd party pump? Can you determine where to buy a FPR and how to determine if it's set correctly and will fit in this specific application? Did you know that the fuel system on this bike is designed to run at 50 PSI at idle wich is abnormal compared to every other FI engine out there? They all run at 43 PSI but not this one - it runs at 50 PSI.

My point is, you can really screw things up but cheaping out. Especially if you're thinking that the magic bullet is running without a fuel pressure regulator.

The ideal situation would be if a person could buy a new Mitsubishi brand UC-T30 pump with a new OE type strainer....but you can't. It's an OE pump, and while it's very popular and used all over the place, Mitsubishi does not sell them to anyone other then a manufacturer. This is why there are a plethora of cheap Chinese clones that are not the same out there.

It's very difficult to determine if the engine is rich or lean due to the fuel pump on this specific bike. I knew that it used to do 238 KPH very quickly with the deep gearing. That was the proper benchmark. I then changed the gearing (went more highway) and did not re-check the top speed for some time. I then did a run and only got +/-220 KPH out of it. This was an indicator that something was wrong. Weeks went buy before I did another run, that time 212 KPH and that was it. At that point I realized, through the process of elimination, that the pump was acting up and careful observation when riding showed that any time it got in the
power band it felt lean.

So it is not easy to determine if the pump is working correctly. What I do know is that for several thousand miles the engine was lean whenever under load. Not good.

The 3rd party Chinese pump confirmed my diagnosis because the bike hit 242 and felt noticably better. It felt correct. However, as mentioned, it lasted two days and left me stuck n the side of the road....

06 CBR 600 RR

Last edited by Arjay67; 07-11-2017 at 12:57 AM.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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Can you determine the exact specs of the original pump to match it to the 3rd party pump?
Yes. It's 343kpa (3.43bar, 50PSI) of pressure and ~72l\h of flow (189cm3/10 seconds), that info could be found in service manual. Besides, if you have working fuel pressure regulator, you can buy a little more powerful fuel pump and go with it, all excessive fuel will be dropped by fpr.
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Can you determine where to buy a FPR and how to determine if it's set correctly and will fit in this specific application?
Yes, i found so many fpr's on the market, now i'm looking for the right one for pressure and size. How to determine? Easy, you just need to apply pressure to it and see on what pressure it will open up, i did it using air compressor and a tire pressure gun.
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My point is, you can really screw things up but cheaping out. Especially if you're thinking that the magic bullet is running without a fuel pressure regulator.
No mate, you got me wrong, i'm not saying that the fpr is not needed and that you can remove it safely and use your motorcycle without harm! all i did on my bike was for testing purposes only, to find what is wrong with it and how can i fix it using the little i have.
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The 3rd party Chinese pump confirmed my diagnosis because the bike hit 242 and felt noticably better. It felt correct. However, as mentioned, it lasted two days and left me stuck n the side of the road....
Sorry to hear that, but there's a lot of different fuel pumps out there, some of them even match our specs, so there's actually no need to buy Chineseum one and hope for better, you can stick with Bosch brand instead. And it will be much cheaper compared to the fuel module :)
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 03:10 PM
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Let us know when you find a replacement fuel pressure regulator and a good pump. I'm sure it would help a lot of people! :)

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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So i finally fixed my bike but after a 2.000km engine died, so...but i've managed to find a real problem though. Fuel pump i bought was from 2009 cbr1000rr, which apparently is the same in every way of size and specification, i'm not sure if it's OEM (guess not) or aftermarket chineseum one, but it was in OEM kinda box. There's two different ones from china, one yellow and one pure shiny metal, the second one is a little more expensive and that's what i bought. And it did well for the first two days but after that the bike started to twitch every time i was accelerating and the hotter the engine was and the longer it worked, the more twitching i got.
The initial problem was inside the fuel module itself, the honda engineers (that narrow-eyed bastards) decided to install yet another fuel filter. The paper one! And what better place you could find for the paper fuel filter, that will die sooner rather than later, than in a factory sealed non serviceable plastic can (WTF Honda? WTF!?).
So i opened it by juncture, took out the filter and sealed the whole container back in, and the magic happened - 270 no problem. I will try to upload some photos of it later.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by madmorze View Post
So i finally fixed my bike but after a 2.000km engine died, so...but i've managed to find a real problem though. Fuel pump i bought was from 2009 cbr1000rr, which apparently is the same in every way of size and specification, i'm not sure if it's OEM (guess not) or aftermarket chineseum one, but it was in OEM kinda box. There's two different ones from china, one yellow and one pure shiny metal, the second one is a little more expensive and that's what i bought. And it did well for the first two days but after that the bike started to twitch every time i was accelerating and the hotter the engine was and the longer it worked, the more twitching i got.
The initial problem was inside the fuel module itself, the honda engineers (that narrow-eyed bastards) decided to install yet another fuel filter. The paper one! And what better place you could find for the paper fuel filter, that will die sooner rather than later, than in a factory sealed non serviceable plastic can (WTF Honda? WTF!?).
So i opened it by juncture, took out the filter and sealed the whole container back in, and the magic happened - 270 no problem. I will try to upload some photos of it later.
Who the **** are you? You're not funny - you are an idiot.

Racially insult a whole bunch of engineers but then continue to use their product. Why not stick to the great motorcycles that are home grown in your land? Oh sorry, I see...you don't have any.

There's a good reason that filter is there and it's evident enough by the problems you're having. If it wasn't there, you'd be getting gunk in your injectors and that's a lot more expensive. It's probably not serviceable and meant to be a replacement because they are generally long wearing parts unless you have rubbish fuel in your area.

2007 Honda CBR125R
2004 Suzuki GS500F
2006 Honda CBR600RR
2000 Honda CBR929RR
2003 Kawasaki ZX-6R

Last edited by RothmansRR; 09-30-2017 at 12:20 PM.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Who the **** are you? You're not funny - you are an idiot.

Racially insult a whole bunch of engineers but then continue to use their product. Why not stick to the great motorcycles that are home grown in your land? Oh sorry, I see...you don't have any.

There's a good reason that filter is there and it's evident enough by the problems you're having. If it wasn't there, you'd be getting gunk in your injectors and that's a lot more expensive. It's probably not serviceable and meant to be a replacement because they are generally long wearing parts unless you have rubbish fuel in your area.
I was not trying to be funny, i was mad and i'm sorry that my post made you, or anyone else for that matter, angry. They could and afaik they do now install the paper filter as a separate element, which is a nice decision in terms of serviceability and it makes their motorcycles more reliable, and it's cheap to replace too. But i said what i said just because it took me way too long to crack that case and i genuinely didn't like their decision to make this part so pricy (till this day) and not serviceable at 2006, and i'm sorry for my language, i will try to be more conservative in my statements next time.
btw i do own a russian made motorcycle for over 18 years now and yes, it's garbage, and yes, honda is obviously better in every possible way and i will continue to buy their products (atm i do own 2 honda motorcycle and my car is also from this brand)
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