2009 CBR600rr Fuel Pump Not Priming - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-21-2017, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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2009 CBR600rr Fuel Pump Not Priming

I've been messing around trying to figure this issue out, and I'm just going out of my mind. I am hoping to get some direction, and/or some multi-meter guidance on how to isolate he issue.

Here is what seems to be happening:

The fuel pump will only prime if the bike is cold. In other words, after I go for a ride and park, the fuel pump won't prime again until the bike completely cools down.

When the fuel pump is not priming, I can hear the engine stop relay clicking when I turn on the ignition or flip the kill switch. I don't think power is getting to the fuel pump relay.

Here is what I have done so far:
  1. Engine Stop switch replaced with new OEM
  2. Fuel Pump replaced with new aftermarket
  3. All relays replaced with new OEM
  4. All fuses replaced
  5. Cleaned ground connector and bolt below gas tank.
  6. Jiggled wires

This has been fairly frustrating. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Axel Nut; 09-21-2017 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Additional Info
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post #2 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so now ironically but not surprisingly even when the bike is cold, the fuel pump wont prime. I have replaced the battery and the bike cranks good. I cannot bump start it.

I would like to back probe the fuel cut relay and/or the fuel pump relay. Not sure what I should be checking as there is no diagram on the relays, and I have no service manual.

Please see my relay voltages when the ignition is turned ON. Is this normal, what should I test next? Please help.

(Engine Stop Relay Pins looking down in same orientation as when they are installed)

1) | 2) |
3) -
4) -

(Back probing at wire harness)
(Ignition in ON position)
1. 11.85v
2. .44v
3. 12.26v
4. 12.26v



(Fuel Pump Relay Pins looking down in same orientation as when they are installed)

1) | 2) |
3) -
4) -

(Back probing at wire harness)
(Ignition in ON position)
1. 12.26v
2. 12.26v
3. 12.26v
4. 0v
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post #3 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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(Engine Stop Relay Pins looking down in same orientation as when they are installed)

1) | 2) |
3) -
4) -

(Back probing at wire harness, countinuity to ground)
(Ignition in OFF position)
1. yes
2. no
3. no
4. no



(Fuel Pump Relay Pins looking down in same orientation as when they are installed)

1) | 2) |
3) -
4) -

(Back probing at wire harness, countinuity to ground)
(Ignition in OFF position)
1. no
2. no
3. no
4. yes
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post #4 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 01:40 PM
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It's sounds like your done troubleshooting.... Possible bad fuel pump.

I don't know the 09 wiring color scheme so I don't want to tell you to send 12v to the wrong component like the fuel sensor instead of the fuel pump. But I'm not sure what else it could be.

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post #5 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 01:46 PM
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What kind of fuel pump did you get and from where? Did you bench test it?

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post #6 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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This issue was occurring with the original OEM fuel pump. I bought a new 'HighFlo' fuel pump in hopes it would fix it. The HighFlo pump runs if I jump the pins on the fuel pump relay, but the engine will not start, and I cannot bump start it.
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post #7 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:10 PM
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OK good. Have you ridden the bike since changing out the fuel pump? Are you sure you got the wiring correct on the pump?

I would start checking your safety switches like your kick stand switch, safety neutral switch, etc., for intermittent problems. Put a multimeter on your fuel pump PIN connector and start jiggling wires to see if you can find the problem.

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Last edited by NewRedRider; 09-22-2017 at 02:14 PM.
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post #8 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I've been riding the bike for quite some time after replacing the fuel pump. Guessing over a thousand hard miles.

Isn't it true that the kick stand switch wouldn't allow the bike to crank, same for safety neutral. The bike cranks good. It's like the BAS or engine stop switch is engaged. Same effect. I have replaced the engine stop switch. I tested the BAS when the bike would prime and start up. Rotating the BAS 90 degrees would shut the engine off as normal. I would bypass BAS if I could get the dang connector pulled out without ripping the wires.

I am confused on my probing. Pin 1 of the engine stop relay shows 12v with ignition on, and continuity to ground with iginition off. I think I have a short somewhere. I need confirmation of what I should expect to see on the relays.
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post #9 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:28 PM
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The neutral switch, clutch switch, and kickstand switch have NOTHING to do with the fuel pump priming. Zero. Zilch. Nada
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post #10 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:32 PM
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Axel you can bypass the bas by jamming a paperclip into the connector. You want to jumper the two outside wires. This is a likely culprit.
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post #11 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:34 PM
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Checking voltages without any notion of what SHOULD be there is an exercise in futility. If you don't know what is supposed to be there you are doing yourself no favours. Same goes for measuring resistances and confusing yourself.


I'm not going to try to decipher your ambiguous explanations of what you found, just encouraging you to stop wasting your time chasing something you have demonstrated the inability to recognize.
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post #12 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Axel you can bypass the bas by jamming a paperclip into the connector. You want to jumper the two outside wires. This is a likely culprit.
Yes I want to do that, but I can't get the bike side connector pulled from the harness to jump the wires. Is there a trick to it? I see 3 tabs holding it in, one at the top, and 2 little ones on the sides.
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post #13 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:41 PM
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You don't need to take it apart just stick the clip down through the rubber grommets where the wires go into it.


But the connector should just pull out of its retainer on the bodywork. I think you just slide it up. It's been a while since I was in there.
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post #14 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
You don't need to take it apart just stick the clip down through the rubber grommets where the wires go into it.


But the connector should just pull out of its retainer on the bodywork. I think you just slide it up. It's been a while since I was in there.
Thanks for that tip. The rubber grommets was messing me up. Got a paper clip jammed through the grommets as far as they can go on the two outside wires, and fuel pump still doesn't prime.
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post #15 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:04 PM
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Do you know the difference between the coil side and the contacts side of a relay?


If you pull the fuel pump relay and look at the pins you'll see there are two brass ones and two silver ones. I can't remember which is which, but set your meter to continuity and check the brass set, then the silver set. The set that shows open loop is the contact details. The set that shows a resistance (100ish ohms) is the coil side.


Once you know the coil side find the corresponding wires in the connector. One of these will be +12vdc, the other is switched to ground by the ecm.


With them bike on and kill switch in the run position, Put your meter to Vdc and put your black lead on battery negative. Put the red on each of the coil wires in connector. You should have battery voltage on one of them. If you don't your problem is upstream of there.


Now set your meter to continuity and put the red lead on the wire that didn't have 12v on it and your black lead to battery negative. When you cycle the kill switch you should see continuity to ground for a few seconds, then open again. This is the ecm priming the pump. If you don't see this switch to ground try a known good ecm.
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post #16 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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I have gold and copper colored pins. The two vertical ones at the top are gold, the 2 horizontal ones are copper.

Ok so, the two vertical ones (gold) show 150 ohms, and the two horizontal ones (copper/brass) show 0L
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Last edited by Axel Nut; 09-22-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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post #17 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:16 PM
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If you had actually read my post you wouldn't be showing me pics of your relay.


Use your eye holes I explained absolutely everything you need to do
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post #18 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Nut View Post
I have gold and copper colored pins. The two vertical ones at the top are gold, the 2 horizontal ones are copper.

Ok so, the two vertical ones (gold) show 150 ohms, and the two horizontal ones (copper/brass) show 0L
Ok so the coil wire at the harness that produced 0vdc did not pass continuity with ignition on and flipping engine stop switch a few times. i.e. ECM did not switch it to ground.

I guess I'm buying a hopefully used and confirmed working ECM.
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post #19 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
If you had actually read my post you wouldn't be showing me pics of your relay.


Use your eye holes I explained absolutely everything you need to do
Even though the ECM isn't grounding the coil for the fuel pump relay to prime the pump, shouldn't I still be able to bump start it, or if I jump the relay to turn the fuel pump on, shouldn't the bike fire up?
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post #20 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:57 PM
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Don't buy one. Stop buying stuff.


Ground the wire that the ecm didn't ground for you and see if the bike starts and runs.


Also check all the grounding points throughout the bike. Especially the ones that are ecu related. Check for corrosion in the ecm connectors especially the wire from the fuel cut relay.



Parts places love people like you. Just do all your diligence before you spend your money.


If you know someone with the same bike as you try their ecm. It will help to narrow down the search.
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post #21 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 03:58 PM
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If fhe ecu can't control the pump it will never work.

You'd have to force the relay for it to operate
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post #22 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Don't buy one. Stop buying stuff.


Ground the wire that the ecm didn't ground for you and see if the bike starts and runs.


Also check all the grounding points throughout the bike. Especially the ones that are ecu related. Check for corrosion in the ecm connectors especially the wire from the fuel cut relay.



Parts places love people like you. Just do all your diligence before you spend your money.


If you know someone with the same bike as you try their ecm. It will help to narrow down the search.
That's just it. I grounded the coil wire that reads 0vdc and the pump runs, but the bike still wont turn over. I'd happily put a switch on it like your buddy did, and ride it like that.

I don't know all the grounding points. The only ones I've found so far were 4 green wires crimped into a metal harness that is bolted to the frame under the gas tank. I cleaned the contacts and bolt and bolt threads.

Sadly I don't know anyone who has a CBR.
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post #23 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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This is driving me nuts! I just pushed my relay/fuse harness back in place, and the fuel pump primed.
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post #24 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 04:16 PM
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I gave you all the direction I can.

If it's intermittent it's probably corrosion related. Have fun.
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post #25 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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I gave you all the direction I can.

If it's intermittent it's probably corrosion related. Have fun.
You did good, I appreciate any advice. It won't be fun. BTW, I just reattached my left fairings, and the fuel pump wont prime anymore ;).

I'm thinking about taking it to a shop the next time it primes and I can get it out.
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post #26 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quick update. A few days ago while wibbly was kind enough to quickly respond to my posts as I worked on the bike, I wrapped the session up with the fuel pump not priming (as noted in my previous post ;p) However, I banged on the left fairings after putting them on, and the pump primed. Well, this morning again it wouldn't prime when cold, so I banged on the fairings again, and still didn't prime. I then jiggled the 4 wires on the bike side harness for the Bank Angle Sensor and it primed twice in a row. I think I have a short further down in the wiring because jumping the two outer wires at the harness didn't prime the pump.
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post #27 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:08 AM
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There's a bundle of grounds on the left side of the bike below that fairing. Have a peek at those
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post #28 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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There's a bundle of grounds on the left side of the bike below that fairing. Have a peek at those
Are you sure on an 09? I tried looking for that and didn't see it. I'll look again.
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post #29 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:27 AM
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look closely, you can see the little green dot.
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post #30 of 115 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Is it at #17 on the wire harness diagram? Only ground point I found was at #19

2009 Honda CBR600RR A WIRE HARNESS | Ron Ayers

Sorry, didn't see your previous post. I'll look for that.

Last edited by Axel Nut; 09-26-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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