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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thumping vibration at 5-7k rpm in 6th

I have a rapid thumping on my '13. It's very strong while going constant speeds or downhill, but here's the catch: If I pull the clutch in it goes away. Tires, chain, and sprockets are good. I feel the thumping in my handlebars and footpegs when in 6th gear and within the 5-7k rpm range. I?m I?m accelerating or decelerating its very hard to notice it, if at all. Any ideas what I'm looking at???

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

Last edited by shinfo; 11-12-2017 at 02:22 PM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 07:16 PM
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Does it only happen in 6th gear, or is it just most noticeable in 6th? Did this happen out of the blue or did it progress to what it is now?

Have you had any recent work done like new tires? Maybe a bad balance?

Does it seem like it's coming from the motor/transmission or the chassis?

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
Does it only happen in 6th gear, or is it just most noticeable in 6th? Did this happen out of the blue or did it progress to what it is now?

Have you had any recent work done like new tires? Maybe a bad balance?

Does it seem like it's coming from the motor/transmission or the chassis?
Came out the blue.

Only work I've done recently is oil change and water pump replacement, but this issue showed up well after those.

It may just be more noticeable in 6th gear. I might happen in 5th as well, but seems like if I'm going 65mph (ish) and keeping a constant speed I can feel if, that is unless I pull the clutch. I feel it in the bars and pegs, but can't pinpoint where it's coming from. Tires are good, chain and sprockets are good.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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When you say chain and sprockets are good, how are you determining that?

If you have tight links in the chain, when you pull in the clutch you are in essence removing the “load” on the drivetrain, the chain is the main driving force behind that. I’ve had chains that looked good and well cared for develop tight links and thump a bit under light or no load and not when you put torque on it. Or at least not as noticeable.

It could be internal to the clutching system or with a transmission gear but I’m leaning towards the chain and sprockets. How many miles on them? What’s your cleaning/care schedule/procedure?

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
When you say chain and sprockets are good, how are you determining that?

If you have tight links in the chain, when you pull in the clutch you are in essence removing the “load” on the drivetrain, the chain is the main driving force behind that. I’ve had chains that looked good and well cared for develop tight links and thump a bit under light or no load and not when you put torque on it. Or at least not as noticeable.

It could be internal to the clutching system or with a transmission gear but I’m leaning towards the chain and sprockets. How many miles on them? What’s your cleaning/care schedule/procedure?
The bike is a 2013 and only has 8K on it. It's the original chain. I'm pretty paranoid about keep the chain lubed (every 200 miles and after each time it gets wet). I rode yesterday for about 30 minutes and it didn't really show up until the last 10 minutes, but it was VERY noticeable. It was a dry day and 50 degrees. That was the first ride on it after I cleaned chain. The problem has been going on since before the chain clean.

Not sure if this is related, but when cleaning the chain, I put the bike on a stand and in first gear, slowly but some throttle input to fling off any crap from the chain. There was a distinct clunking from the transmission area, but I figure that's just the teeth catching in the transmission. I've looked around and found other people with the same thing.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

Last edited by shinfo; 11-12-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 02:06 PM
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No need to run the bike during the chain cleaning and lubricating process.

It sounds like you are maintaining the chain well though so it should be good at that age. Even still, do check for stiff links and/or tight spots.

At your milage I would be shocked if it was bad dogs or something else internal.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
No need to run the bike during the chain cleaning and lubricating process.

It sounds like you are maintaining the chain well though so it should be good at that age. Even still, do check for stiff links and/or tight spots.

At your milage I would be shocked if it was bad dogs or something else internal.
I know it's not needed, but it's just an extra step I started doing a while back to helped helps get more cleaner off.
I would be surprised about anything internal as well. It's odd. I'm hoping it's just the chain.

Additional info: chain doesn't have any red dust, it looks like brand new honestly. I keep it clean and well maintained, but ride it hard.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 03:42 PM
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8K is early for chain problems!

How much chain slack are you running?

If you roll bike downhill in Neutral, does the bike make any cyclic noises?

Also, with rear on stand, slowly spin wheel and look for any twitches/jumps as chain enters and leaves sprockets?

For me, a chain is past done when it makes any noticeable cyclic sound when rolling 10 mph or so.....
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
8K is early for chain problems!

How much chain slack are you running?

If you roll bike downhill in Neutral, does the bike make any cyclic noises?

Also, with rear on stand, slowly spin wheel and look for any twitches/jumps as chain enters and leaves sprockets?

For me, a chain is past done when it makes any noticeable cyclic sound when rolling 10 mph or so.....
I keep the chain within spec slack. There?s no odd sound, but with the bike on a paddock stand, and while spinning the rear tire, I can see the chain hasn?t stretched evenly as the slack goes up and down with tire rotation.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
I keep the chain within spec slack. There?s no odd sound, but with the bike on a paddock stand, and while spinning the rear tire, I can see the chain hasn?t stretched evenly as the slack goes up and down with tire rotation.
It is possible to clean the chain too much and too hard, it’s a sealed item and just needs a light lubrication to keep it from corroding and to provide a bit of “cusion” between the sprockets and rollers. Not saying you are doing this, just stating the fact and every 200 miles is a lot.

I would agree that 8k is a bit early for tight links but it’s not unheard of. The telling statement above is the “slack goes up and down with tire rotation” because if it’s excessive, those are probably your tight links.

Also if it was better until later in the ride, what lube you are using?

Edit: is your wheel alignment good?

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Last edited by Miweber929; 11-12-2017 at 06:04 PM.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
It is possible to clean the chain too much and too hard, itís a sealed item and just needs a light lubrication to keep it from corroding and to provide a bit of ďcusionĒ between the sprockets and rollers. Not saying you are doing this, just stating the fact and every 200 miles is a lot.

I would agree that 8k is a bit early for tight links but itís not unheard of. The telling statement above is the ďslack goes up and down with tire rotationĒ because if itís excessive, those are probably your tight links.

Also if it was better until later in the ride, what lube you are using?

Edit: is your wheel alignment good?
Absolutely, I'll clarify that I lube it every ~200 miles. I clean and lube every 600 ish (when I start to see visible dirt).
I use Motorex Chain Clean Degreaser and then lube with Maxima Racing Oils Chain Wax.
Wheel alignment is good.

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 08:49 PM
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Chain should move smoothly, on and off both sprockets.

Like liquid, no jumping, no change in sound.

Like you, I'm a frequent chain cleaner/luber.

IMHO....usually, once the chain stiffens, it's done for.....I've never been able to get the sticky links looser.....

Note: No matter how hard I try, I rarely get more than 12K miles from a quality chain.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 07:27 AM
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This is just me stating my own opinion about my experiences, and I can easily get 20k miles on a chain and have gone over 30k on OEM chains on liter bikes before there were X-ring sealed links, but I feel like both @shinfo and @tary preisser are over cleaning and over lubing your chains which account for the short lifespan.

I could very much be wrong, and I’m not 100% sure the chain is @shinfo’s issue but I “clean” my chain when it’s warm with a rag and some WD-40 if it’s hugely gunked up or if I have been riding in the rain and can see crap on it, which is maybe once or twice a season, and lube after which entails spinning it with my hand on a stand and dripping a bit on the inside of the rollers until it’s made a revolution or two then grabbing a clean rag and spreading it out to all over the links. Once it’s no longer dry, it’s good. I spin the wheel a few more times, wait five minutes or so and wipe off the excess. I lube maybe every 1000 miles, maybe, and clean only when needed and my small can of PJ-1 Blue is like 10 years old and not even half gone with 3 bikes in the garage.

I feel things like a chain cleaner and a grunge brush can do more harm than good and can cause premature failure as how does the spray cleaner know what’s old chain lube and what’s good chain grease? The rings can keep some lube in but it can be cleaned out or crap forced in if it’s over done.

Like I said, I don’t know it as a for-sure thing, but it seems like a lot of people who clean their chains religiously get a shorter life than I experience. The chain on the ‘11 Triumph Sprint GT I bought this summer was junk in under 14,000 miles because the P.O. did NOTHING to it in that time so there is a level of keeping it clean and lubed you need to do.

Hope you find the issue!!!

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
This is just me stating my own opinion about my experiences, and I can easily get 20k miles on a chain and have gone over 30k on OEM chains on liter bikes before there were X-ring sealed links, but I feel like both @shinfo and @tary preisser are over cleaning and over lubing your chains which account for the short lifespan.

I could very much be wrong, and I?m not 100% sure the chain is @shinfo?s issue but I ?clean? my chain when it?s warm with a rag and some WD-40 if it?s hugely gunked up or if I have been riding in the rain and can see crap on it, which is maybe once or twice a season, and lube after which entails spinning it with my hand on a stand and dripping a bit on the inside of the rollers until it?s made a revolution or two then grabbing a clean rag and spreading it out to all over the links. Once it?s no longer dry, it?s good. I spin the wheel a few more times, wait five minutes or so and wipe off the excess. I lube maybe every 1000 miles, maybe, and clean only when needed and my small can of PJ-1 Blue is like 10 years old and not even half gone with 3 bikes in the garage.

I feel things like a chain cleaner and a grunge brush can do more harm than good and can cause premature failure as how does the spray cleaner know what?s old chain lube and what?s good chain grease? The rings can keep some lube in but it can be cleaned out or crap forced in if it?s over done.

Like I said, I don?t know it as a for-sure thing, but it seems like a lot of people who clean their chains religiously get a shorter life than I experience. The chain on the ?11 Triumph Sprint GT I bought this summer was junk in under 14,000 miles because the P.O. did NOTHING to it in that time so there is a level of keeping it clean and lubed you need to do.

Hope you find the issue!!!
It took me long enough but I got the chain and sprockets replaced. It didn’t solve the problem. I went with OEM sprockets and a DID 525 chain. The issue is still very present and was doing it at higher speeds (70-80 mph) today. I stayed on straight roads and tried to narrow it down, but honestly it does it anytime I’m in 6th and above 4K rpm.

Edit: Trying to clarify the feeling - It's not a vibration like a phone vibrating, it's a tapping or thumping, and it's about as rapid as you could tap one finger on your desk as fast as you can. It does't increase or decrease with engine speed. Goes away when the clutch is pulled in.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

Last edited by shinfo; 12-27-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
I have a rapid thumping on my '13. It's very strong while going constant speeds or downhill, but here's the catch: If I pull the clutch in it goes away. Tires, chain, and sprockets are good. I feel the thumping in my handlebars and footpegs when in 6th gear and within the 5-7k rpm range. I?m I?m accelerating or decelerating its very hard to notice it, if at all. Any ideas what I'm looking at???
I have noticed, most of the Time if you feel something on the Pegs, its chain/Sprockets. if you feel it on the handlebars, its breakspads/rotors/wheelbearings/balancing stuff to do with the front wheel. never experienced something like what you explained. you say no noise just feeling. and it goes away when clutch is pulled. that rules out a lot of the above..


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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-28-2017, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Plans for the weekend:
Reset the suspension and dial it back in.
Pull the front wheel, check brakes, make sure the tire is balanced.
Overall bolt check on the bike to make sure everything is tightened and visually looking good.
I just had the rear wheel off and those brake pads are good, I didn't check the tire balance though, but it doesn't feel like it's coming from the rear wheel anyways.
Anything else I should do?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
Plans for the weekend:
Reset the suspension and dial it back in.
Pull the front wheel, check brakes, make sure the tire is balanced.
Overall bolt check on the bike to make sure everything is tightened and visually looking good.
I just had the rear wheel off and those brake pads are good, I didn't check the tire balance though, but it doesn't feel like it's coming from the rear wheel anyways.
Anything else I should do?
hmmm goes away when clutch is pulled, while you riding and feel it, pull clutch then you rev it up to 5-7k rmp with the clutch pulled and check if you then feel anything. i am guessing you have tried this when standing still and rev the bike while sitting on it. I know on the CBR1K there is a balance shaft that has a function of balancing and removing Vibrations on engine. still learning about the 600 so maybe if they also have something like that it could be a possibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft


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hmmm goes away when clutch is pulled, while you riding and feel it, pull clutch then you rev it up to 5-7k rmp with the clutch pulled and check if you then feel anything. i am guessing you have tried this when standing still and rev the bike while sitting on it. I know on the CBR1K there is a balance shaft that has a function of balancing and removing Vibrations on engine. still learning about the 600 so maybe if they also have something like that it could be a possibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft
I've pulled the clutch while on the road and rev'ed the bike up to the RPMs and I don't feel it. I haven't done it in my garage on stands, but I'm going to do that this weekend as well.
What's weird to me is that the thumping is a constant speed - about as fast as you could tap one finger on a desk. It doesn't speed up with RPM or wheel speed. This is making me go more bald stressing about this! lol

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg
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Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
I've pulled the clutch while on the road and rev'ed the bike up to the RPMs and I don't feel it. I haven't done it in my garage on stands, but I'm going to do that this weekend as well.
What's weird to me is that the thumping is a constant speed - about as fast as you could tap one finger on a desk. It doesn't speed up with RPM or wheel speed. This is making me go more bald stressing about this! lol

Is there any way possible that you can get a Cam mounted or get some kind of recording of the noise...so some of us can look or listen to it and try figure this out. its bugging me not knowing what it could be. and its not affecting the performance..? I was thinking maybe its the fuel pump but you would feel that on the tank not pegs or handles... cant be brake pads or rotors since they don't increase or decrease in speed with the wheels or RPM its a constant thump.. lets try the video or sound recording


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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thereís not a sound, not that I can tell at least since Iím going 70+mph. Itís just a rapid thumping in the pegs and bars. Iíd call it vibration, but it doesnít feel like that. It feels like bad bearings or something hitting.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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I put the bike on a rear stand and went through the gears, got it to 6th and held it throughout the RMP range and nothing. Didnít feel it once. I did notice that the rear wheel wobbles ever so slightly, so I did it again and filmed it in slo-mo on my phone. The rim doesnít move, but tire shifts ever so slightly from side to side. The rim lip stays constant though. My tires are older than I thought, they were manufactured at the beginning of 2015. Not sure how much that has an imapct. Iím going to remove the tires and check that the rims are good, then go from there. Also going to reset the suspension and check forks.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 08:53 PM
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Did you buy this bike from new? Have you ever crashed it?

A rim won't just go bad randomly. Your tire should be fine too. My only thought is the tire has strange wear causing vibrations or you just have shitty roads.

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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
Did you buy this bike from new? Have you ever crashed it?

A rim won't just go bad randomly. Your tire should be fine too. My only thought is the tire has strange wear causing vibrations or you just have shitty roads.
It would be the tire, not the wheel. I mention checking the wheel only because there is no harm in checking and at this point I’m trying to cover all my bases. I’ve had he bike since new. Roads are fine, there’s nothing that has happened recently that would cause this thumping vibration. Like I said earlier, it came out of the blue.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg

Last edited by shinfo; 12-30-2017 at 01:08 AM.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Wheels are balanced and the wobble I thought I saw is excess rubber on the crest of the tire wall causing a change in shadow in the video at high speeds. So tires are good. Wheels are good. I reset the suspension. Iíll go out tomorrow and see if the feeling is still there.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/68b9f92683e3e0506dd727af79363281/tumblr_ntyw0v9hrk1ufoouto1_500.jpg
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