Crankshaft Won't Turn - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Crankshaft Won't Turn

In an attempt to do my own valve adjustment, I hit a road block. I got everything off and went to turn the craftshaft clockwise to make my measurements by aligning the "T" index mark with the notch. My crankshaft won't turn more than 90 degrees in either direction, clockwise or counter-clockwise. In the range that I could turn the crankshaft, it made couple of loud pop and then started to turn until it came to a dead stop. I've removed the spark plugs, the camchain tensioner, and even put my weight onto it but nothing. The bolt would turn but the crankshaft stayed at the same position. Any idea what's wrong?
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:10 PM
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That does not sound good at all. I hope you didn't damage anything.

Is it possible the cam chain is binding up?

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Possibly but I'm not sure. I guess my next step is to remove the camchain completely to see if it turns freely.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:20 PM
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lol don't do that. if you're not at TDC you could run your pistons into the valves.
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
lol don't do that. if you're not at TDC you could run your pistons into the valves.
Good point but now what?

It just weird that I was able to turn it freely to take the first 2 measurements and then all of the sudden, it came to a stop where I could no longer turn it clockwise.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 07:46 PM
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did you pull the tensioner?
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
did you pull the tensioner?
In the first post he says he removed the tensioner.

OP did you pull the tensioner before or after the loud pops and crankshaft halting.

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 09:48 PM
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If he's just taking measurements shouldn't the tensioner still be in?

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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I turned the tensioner clockwise and used my fabricated tool to lock it in place before proceeding to turn the flywheel. After it was stuck, I then removed the tensioner completely to isolate it from the problem.

I'm thinking of putting it back to see if it can tension the chain and clear any lock up but the manual actually said to loosen it so I don't damage the chain.
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-25-2018, 11:33 PM
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If you released the cam chain tension then turned the crank the pops you heard were probably the cam chain skipping over the cam gears

Since it's now out of time it's possible the reason you can't turn the crank is because you are contacting valves with the pistons. Don't do anything more at this point. Hopefully you didn't bend any valves when you "put your weight" on the ratchet.


Set the cams to their tdc position if possible and do the adjustment. then set the crank to its index mark, then re assemble the top end and re time your engine.

Last edited by wibbly; 02-25-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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I'm afraid you might be right and I'm too late to read this suggestion. I ended up breaking the bolt to the flywheel and will have to figure out how to fish it out.

I'm going to order the replacement bolt and will have the bike going to a mechanic shop to see if it's fixable.



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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like my problem is exactly described here.

https://www.600rr.net/vb/62-troublesh...wont-turn.html.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 09:45 AM
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Yes. You did the same thing as he did. And I told him the same thing I told you...


Do you not want to believe this advice?
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 01:49 PM
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What a nightmare :(

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
What a nightmare :(
True. I would imagine the engine will need to come out now to replace some valves. Really a harsh way to get educated about the differences between the traction and slack sides of a timing chain.

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 07:20 PM
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Not good. In automotive terms the engine is an 'interference fit' engine which means the pistons are able to hit the valves if the camshafts and crankshafts are out of time. When you break the crank bolt in an effort to force it to turn over then it's a pretty good sign that there was/is a mechanical blockage preventing the engine from turning over. Any time there is a mechanical blockage or hydraulic blockage - it's not a good thing. I'm sure the mechanic will love you because;

1) You tried to save money at his expense
2) You then promptly broke the crankshaft bolt (among other things)

In all truth, unless a person has a strong background in the automotive trade (or other equivalent) I would seriously consider just biting the bullet and taking it to the dealer before you muck things up. Even people that have 'successfully' adjusted their valve clearance often have the exhaust camshafts retarded. They think it's good but it's not. If memory serves there's even a How-To on this site where the pictures clearly show that one of the camshafts is out of of time. I would not be surprised if many of the bikes out there are like this due to the owner saving money.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like it can't be self-serviced but I used to own an automotive shop, have personally worked on thousands of cars, have probably done a thousand timing belts and I know, right off the bat, that any high-performance engine will have tight piston to valve clearance and this means that the pistons will likely hit the valves if mis-timed. Even knowing nothing about bikes, in that case I would know that the engine is built so close to maximum possible performance that it's very definitely going to be an 'interference fit' engine. There is no other way to extract the maximum performance from a naturally aspirated engine then to have high compression and little valve clearance.

Unless a fella has that understanding and experience going in, it's probably best not to go there at all. My guess? All new exhaust valves and that's assuming a fella can even get the bolt out of the crank. If I had a shop, and someone brought me that mess to clean up, got to say, I would probably send the customer down the road with a sympathetic (and genuine) sadness.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-26-2018, 08:49 PM
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Such a tragedy....sorry to hear...good luck
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the help & advice. My attempt was fuel by the fact that I've done it before and in effort to do an updated write-up on valve adjustment to help others who wish to try. I didn't think the forum has so much responses and it could have saved me the headache had I patiently waited for it.

I called the mechanic and he advised that it may be cheaper to replace it with a new engine then to fix. I might just do that. My bike is already at 58Kmi and I could use another engine. Either that or 1000RR.

Last edited by dreamzboy; 02-27-2018 at 05:42 PM.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Yes. You did the same thing as he did. And I told him the same thing I told you...


Do you not want to believe this advice?
Your advice is spot on. I'm afraid I already mess it up when I said put my whole "weight" on it.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay67 View Post
When you break the crank bolt in an effort to force it to turn over then it's a pretty good sign that there was/is a mechanical blockage preventing the engine from turning over. Any time there is a mechanical blockage or hydraulic blockage - it's not a good thing.
Just for learning experiences, why was there a blockage in the first place? Is the manual wrong by telling me to loosen the cam chain tensioner and then turn the crank bolt? Shouldn't I suppose to keep the cam chain tighten so that the chain couldn't skip a gear?
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 11:55 PM
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there shouldn't be a "blockage". you put the engine out of timing by allowing the cams to go out of sync with the crank shaft. the manual doesn't say to remove the cam chain tensioner first. it tells you to index the crank first.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
there shouldn't be a "blockage". you put the engine out of timing by allowing the cams to go out of sync with the crank shaft. the manual doesn't say to remove the cam chain tensioner first. it tells you to index the crank first.
The procedure you attached is actually for Camshaft Removal in order to replace the shim. The title even say so in the picture. This is what I followed but somehow it caused the chain to miss the timing.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamzboy View Post
The procedure you attached is actually for Camshaft Removal in order to replace the shim. The title even say so in the picture. This is what I followed but somehow it caused the chain to miss the timing.
I can only assume your homemade tensioner stopper did not work as it should, and allowed the cam chain to lose its tension. Yet another reason why I love my ape manual CCT.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
I can only assume your homemade tensioner stopper did not work as it should, and allowed the cam chain to lose its tension. Yet another reason why I love my ape manual CCT.
Turning it in causes it to release tension, not add it. If his ďholderĒ failed it would have done nothing in this case.

The factory tensioner works just fine as long as itís maintained and replaced once it gets noisy and itís VERY easy for people who shouldn't be adjusting things to overtighten a manual one.

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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, my homemade tension stopper did slip but it shouldn't mess with the timing to begin with. Maybe the spring loaded tensioner had enough force to knock the chain out of timing when it slipped. One noticeable difference was that the tensioner was fully compressed within about 3 full turns whereas I remembered my 2006 600RR had a few more revolutions.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 10:51 PM
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I just checked the service manual, chapter 4-11. (498cm^3 you were spot on).

There is no mention of the cam chain tensioner! You only release tension on the tensioner when you are removing the camshafts to make the adjustment. When just checking the valves, you should not be touching the cam chain tensioner whatsoever (which makes complete sense intuitively).

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- SS front brake lines - Gilles Rearsets

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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamzboy View Post
Yes, my homemade tension stopper did slip but it shouldn't mess with the timing to begin with. Maybe the spring loaded tensioner had enough force to knock the chain out of timing when it slipped. One noticeable difference was that the tensioner was fully compressed within about 3 full turns whereas I remembered my 2006 600RR had a few more revolutions.
What messed with the timing was when you turned the crankshaft with a loose cam chain, and the chain hopped a couple teeth, which Wibbly already pointed out.

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- Micron Slip on - Pair/EVAP delete
- SS front brake lines - Gilles Rearsets
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
I just checked the service manual, chapter 4-11. (498cm^3 you were spot on).

There is no mention of the cam chain tensioner! You only release tension on the tensioner when you are removing the camshafts to make the adjustment. When just checking the valves, you should not be touching the cam chain tensioner whatsoever (which makes complete sense intuitively).
Yes, and to remove the camshafts you better make sure you have the timing mark lined up AND the camshaft sprocket markings in phase. Then you can loosen the tensioner. But don't move the crank again until you have the camshafts timed, torqued, and the tensioner back in. And NEVER EVER turn the crankshaft counterclockwise. That alone can damage the timing components and valves. The tensioner side of a timing chain is not made to withstand traction, and also when placed in traction the valves are no longer in time and can contact the pistons.

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Last edited by 498cm3; 03-01-2018 at 11:39 PM.
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-04-2018, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda-Power View Post
I just checked the service manual, chapter 4-11. (498cm^3 you were spot on).

There is no mention of the cam chain tensioner! You only release tension on the tensioner when you are removing the camshafts to make the adjustment. When just checking the valves, you should not be touching the cam chain tensioner whatsoever (which makes complete sense intuitively).
Maybe I have a different manual than yours but at 4-11, my manual talked about replacing the spark plugs. However, starting at 4-18, it actually goes into detail on how you can take measurements and adjust the valves.

It totally made sense not to loosen the chain tensioner to keep the chain secured on the gears but this is not what the manual said.




Last edited by dreamzboy; 03-04-2018 at 07:46 PM.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-04-2018, 09:36 PM
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Interesting, my manual is for the 03-06 models, and is indeed quite different.

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- Micron Slip on - Pair/EVAP delete
- SS front brake lines - Gilles Rearsets
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