Cam Chain still tight during Valve Clearance after using cam tensioner locking tool - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Cam Chain still tight during Valve Clearance after using cam tensioner locking tool

Hey All,

I'm in the process of doing a Valve Clearance on my 2008 CBR600RR but I'm stuck. I removed the cam chain tensioner bolt and inserted the special tensioner locker tool, which cost me $90 I must add, and turned it clockwise all the way, and locked it into place. This is supposed to loosen the cam chain.

I wired the chain to the frame so it won't fall during the procedure. I removed the cam covers. However, the chain is still totally tight. I double checked the tensioner locking tool and it is definitely turned all the way to the right.

On my 03 CBR, the chain was loose after turning the tool and securing it.

Has anyone gotten this far and found their cam chain was still tight? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks a lot!
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Wow this must be a real stumper! I've never posted something without response a week later.

If no one knows what's happening here, can anyone at least point me in the right direction.

Thx!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 07:28 PM
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did you index the crank before starting the procedure?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
did you index the crank before starting the procedure?
@wibbly Yes made sure the marks were in the correct place according to the service manual.
Guess it couldn't hurt to crank it over again and re-line it up. Or can it hurt unless I put the cam covers back on?
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 08:08 PM
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the valve cover? or the caps that actually secure the cams?

if you remove the tensioner entirely has it actually retracted? if the tensioner is retracted DO NOT TURN THE CRANK, if the caps on the cams are removed DO NOT TURN THE CRANK

only turn the crank if you have the cam chain tensioner set, and the cams fastened in place. you can do it with the valve cover off, but not with anything else loose or removed.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply wibbly. Sorry mine is so late.

I meant the caps.
I'm gonna bolt them on and put it all back together minus the valve cover.
Gonna crank the engine over a few times then land again on the correct markings.
Then use tensioner tool.

Will then see if cam-chain is loose this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
the valve cover? or the caps that actually secure the cams?

if you remove the tensioner entirely has it actually retracted? if the tensioner is retracted DO NOT TURN THE CRANK, if the caps on the cams are removed DO NOT TURN THE CRANK

only turn the crank if you have the cam chain tensioner set, and the cams fastened in place. you can do it with the valve cover off, but not with anything else loose or removed.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 07:35 PM
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Just remove the tensioner completely until finished. Problem solved!

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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@bored&stroked Am i the jackass of all trades here? Is the tensioner tool designed to keep the camchain tight while taking off the cam caps and all ya gotta do is loosen the tensioner tool [SLOWLY] after removing the caps to get to work? ��

But I don't see that mentioned in the Honda Service Manual on page 9-11 and I don't wanna mess this thing up.

1. "Turn the tensioner lifter shaft fully in (clockwise) and secure it using the tensioner stopper to prevent damaging the cam chain."
2. Then it describes the optional step of replacing the camshaft (which I am skipping).
3. The next section (page 9-12) describes removing all the bolts in a cris-cross pattern
4. Then remove lifters and shims.

So I'm stuck at #4 above because I can't remove the lifters and shims because I can't get the camshafts out of the way.

Am I overlooking something?

Thanks guys!

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Originally Posted by bored&stroked View Post
Just remove the tensioner completely until finished. Problem solved!

Last edited by AwakenedRider; 05-10-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-11-2018, 06:17 PM
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I have no idea. I've always removed the tensioner when it was the oem, and just back out the manual adjustment now that i have aftermarket.

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
'15 1000RR- weekend toy
------Disclaimer: I can't spell------
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Reading further into the manual I see instructions on how to remove the cam tensioner apparatus. @bored&stroked I didn't realize you meant remove the whole damn thing!

Can you guys tell me the easiest way to get to the top bolt? The radiator pipe is in the way and it looks like I'll need to completely remove it. Any tips?

Thx mucho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bored&stroked View Post
I have no idea. I've always removed the tensioner when it was the oem, and just back out the manual adjustment now that i have aftermarket.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwakenedRider View Post
Reading further into the manual I see instructions on how to remove the cam tensioner apparatus. @bored&stroked I didn't realize you meant remove the whole damn thing!

Can you guys tell me the easiest way to get to the top bolt? The radiator pipe is in the way and it looks like I'll need to completely remove it. Any tips?

Thx mucho.
Super long extension with a swivel? Myself I just took an angle grinder and cut a wrench down to like an inch or two. Was a pain in the arse and I took many many breaks. Whatever you do, make sure you undo the top bolt first!, then the lower bolt.

In hindsight, and if I had more patience, I would have tried to jb weld something together to make getting to that top bolt easier.

Anyway, i'm sure others have a better suggestion for you, but yeah, have fun with that!

Edit to add: Honda suggests 4 hours labor to replace the CCT. I didn't remove my tank or anything, just the fairings and used that little wrench. Took me 4 hours, 4 completely miserable hours, and I was not able to get the top bolt torqued correctly. It's on there though, and about 10k miles later, still holding up.

Last edited by Axel Nut; 05-29-2018 at 06:33 PM.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Nut View Post
Super long extension with a swivel? Myself I just took an angle grinder and cut a wrench down to like an inch or two. Was a pain in the arse and I took many many breaks. Whatever you do, make sure you undo the top bolt first!, then the lower bolt.

In hindsight, and if I had more patience, I would have tried to jb weld something together to make getting to that top bolt easier.

Anyway, i'm sure others have a better suggestion for you, but yeah, have fun with that!

Edit to add: Honda suggests 4 hours labor to replace the CCT. I didn't remove my tank or anything, just the fairings and used that little wrench. Took me 4 hours, 4 completely miserable hours, and I was not able to get the top bolt torqued correctly. It's on there though, and about 10k miles later, still holding up.
Crazy sh*t @Axel Nut!
Thanks for your experience and suggestion for less frustration and pain. Did you use an angle grinder to cut into the frame??
Def will loosen the top bolt first!
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwakenedRider View Post
Crazy sh*t @Axel Nut!
Thanks for your experience and suggestion for less frustration and pain. Did you use an angle grinder to cut into the frame??
Def will loosen the top bolt first!
Cut into the frame? No I used the angle grinder to cut a wrench in half, well really down to about 2 inches or so, just small enough to get it on the bolt, and have room to turn it. I attached a ziptie to the wrench so i wouldn't drop it, and used another wrench to pull the little wrench counter clockwise to loosen the top bolt.

Once I got the top bolt loose to the point where I could use my fingers, I started loosening the bottom bolt. This is where I made my huge mistake, and cost me another 2 hours (total of 4). Loosening the bottom bolt simply caused the CCT to begin pushing up, and of course, put tension back on the top bolt to where I had to use the little wrench again.

The wrench allowed me to loosen the top bolt like a mm or 2 before having to reset it, rinse and repeat for what seams like forever. The ziptie helped me not drop the wrench, and guide the wrench back on the bolt with my fingers.

Long story short, remove the top bolt, then work on the bottom bolt because you can use a normal ratchet/socket on it.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-2018, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Nut View Post
Cut into the frame? No I used the angle grinder to cut a wrench in half, well really down to about 2 inches or so, just small enough to get it on the bolt, and have room to turn it. I attached a ziptie to the wrench so i wouldn't drop it, and used another wrench to pull the little wrench counter clockwise to loosen the top bolt.

Once I got the top bolt loose to the point where I could use my fingers, I started loosening the bottom bolt. This is where I made my huge mistake, and cost me another 2 hours (total of 4). Loosening the bottom bolt simply caused the CCT to begin pushing up, and of course, put tension back on the top bolt to where I had to use the little wrench again.

The wrench allowed me to loosen the top bolt like a mm or 2 before having to reset it, rinse and repeat for what seams like forever. The ziptie helped me not drop the wrench, and guide the wrench back on the bolt with my fingers.

Long story short, remove the top bolt, then work on the bottom bolt because you can use a normal ratchet/socket on it.

Awesome @Axel Nut! Thanks again for lookin' out.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-30-2018, 10:39 AM
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A shallow socket with a short extension, swivel, then a long extension is the easiest way without removing that coolant pipe. You canít get a good torque reading when reinstalling with that setup, but itís not a critical function bolt. Just use some mechanical sympathy and snug it down without over doing it.


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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-30-2018, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar556 View Post
A shallow socket with a short extension, swivel, then a long extension is the easiest way without removing that coolant pipe. You canít get a good torque reading when reinstalling with that setup, but itís not a critical function bolt. Just use some mechanical sympathy and snug it down without over doing it.


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Right on @ar556
Thanks for the tip!
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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We're good gents! Take the whole dang cam-tensioner off and now i got slack! Didn't even need to take the camshafts off the cam chanin to get the shims out.

On my 2003, i didn't have to remove the cam-tensioner to get slack so that's where I got confused.

Thanks @ar556 for telling me to completely take off the top bolt 1st. I welded a custom wrench/8mm socket to make this happen.

Thx again @Axel Nut @bored&stroked @wibbly @ar556
Good information; Hope this thread helps someone else out going forward.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 08:00 PM
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Wow 4 hours.. it's a 30min job through the side with a few nifty wobble extentions. Try changing on a F4i !!
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-12-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Xzibit View Post
Wow 4 hours.. it's a 30min job through the side with a few nifty wobble extentions. Try changing on a F4i !!
Its a 30min job. F4i's are easy

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
'15 1000RR- weekend toy
------Disclaimer: I can't spell------
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2018, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bored&stroked View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzibit View Post
Wow 4 hours.. it's a 30min job through the side with a few nifty wobble extentions. Try changing on a F4i !!
Its a 30min job. F4i's are easy <img src="https://www.600rr.net/vb/images/600RR_net_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
Yeah true but tank and things have to come off on the F4i. I found the RR easier for me personally. Both are easily done with a bit of time and basic tools
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