Starter won't turn at all. - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 04:21 AM Thread Starter
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Starter won't turn at all.

Ruled out relay and power issues, connected a car battery directly to the starter.

Removed the starter motor and it works fine out of the bike.

Is the next thing to take off the engine cover and check the starter clutch?
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 09:12 AM
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From your tag I'll assume you have an 03. Find a wiring diagram, there are plenty floating around on the web, and trace back the wiring from the starter to the battery. Identify the components and test them one by one. I don't have the diagram in front of me and my memory's a bit hazy on what goes inline except the starter switch and the main fuse. As long as you got the starter to turn, you've eliminated the most expensive part. Be patient and follow the diagram and test the parts. Electrical troubleshooting is a bitch.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 09:25 AM
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Starter clutch is not part of the equation. I just got my CBR, but if this is like any older motorcycle starter system, either starter switch, or starter solenoid. Jumper out the solenoid, if the starter works, bad solenoid.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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I have tested everything, there is continuity to the starter when you press the switch and I have also connected the battery directly to the starter and it won't turn while connected to the bike, only turns when you take it out.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 01:55 PM
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Engine isn't seized I hope. Does your engine turn when you push the bike in gear?
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Bike runs 100% fine when you bump it.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 08:55 PM
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Pull the end cap off the starter and clean out all the carbon. Make sure the brushes are good as well.

Reassemble and try again. It's probably got a terrible ground fault and isn't producing any torque.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 12:20 AM
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Is the battery strong? Sometimes if the starter brushes are marginal, a weak battery won't cut it.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah new battery in the bike but also tried a car battery which should give way more current
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:28 AM
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If the starter works, and it bump starts, got to be an electrical problem. Do you get voltage (you only said there is continuity) to the starter when you press the start switch?
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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But I've connected a battery directly to the motor with jumper cables, surely this eliminates everything but the starter (maybe it only works without load?) or something after it inside the engine.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR3 View Post
But I've connected a battery directly to the motor with jumper cables, surely this eliminates everything but the starter (maybe it only works without load?) or something after it inside the engine.
Listen to @wibbly, post #7. He’s telling you what you need to do.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Listen to @wibbly, post #7. He’s telling you what you need to do.

Completely missed that post, I'll give it a go.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Ordered a new starter motor as my bike isn't where I'm staying at the moment, can only work on it on weekends, I tried the new one and it has exactly the same problem. Now I really can't think of anything it could be this side of the engine. Going to pop the clutch cover off tomorrow and see if I can work out what's going on.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 05:39 PM
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did you check for voltage at the motor terminals when you are trying to crank it?
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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No, I just removed the positive from the starter motor and attached a cable directly to the battery. Big sparks, starter goes clunk as it tries to turn but doesn't. Same result with both starter motors.

My power source is good, new battery that starts other bikes fine, and also tried the battery out of the car.

The electrics are completely out of the equation as I'm just using two cables, a battery and the starter.

and now I've tried a new starter motor incase the old one only worked without load.

I figure it has to be something after the starter motor?
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 09:42 PM
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Have you had the clutch cover off recently? The starter is constant mesh so it's not as though the gears are going to magically foul themselves. The starter clutch is clearly working if the starter doesn't spin


Is your main engine ground attached and in good condition? You have only looked at half the electrical.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I had the clutch cover off as the bike got vandalized, that was the last time it started off the button.

They had taken the oil cap off so I had to check they hadn't filled the engine with sand or something. It's possible I put it together wrong.

I still don't understand what you mean by half the electrical though.

If you have a circuit of nothing more than a battery and a motor it should spin regardless of any other electrics on the bike, if it doesn't turn it has to be something physical stopping it inside the engine as that's the only thing that pinion is attached to.

EDIT: as for the main ground is that the one that connects the engine to the negative battery terminal to the engine? If so it's all tight and clean.

Last edited by RR3; 09-15-2018 at 10:33 PM.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:45 PM
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Half the electrical as you only checked the positive.



You not once in this thread mentioned that you removed the clutch cover and it never worked since.



You more than likely have a chowdered idler gear jammed into your engine right now.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah I had the clutch cover off as the bike got vandalized, that was the last time it started off the button.
See, information like this when you have people trying to help you troubleshoot long distance is kinda important......

Ok, under the clutch cover is a bunch of small gears all intertwined with each other. If memory serves me towards the front are several small gears, and they mesh together to make the starter work and I think one drives the oil pump. A couple shafts fit into the clutch cover.

It’s not easy but you can possibly put the cover on and not have them all in place and meshing right. A service manual would be a big help.

I’d check there, see if @wibbly chimes in with better info, I’m going by memory.

Edit: looks like he did while I was typing my post.

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the confusion, the bike hasn't started off the button since it was vandalized, not since I had the clutch cover off.

I don't remember really touching anything, a washer + wavy washer came off with the casing but I put them back on and left everything else as it was. I can't think how I would of messed it up but I'll take it back off again and check it.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 11:17 PM
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The two washers just go against the idler, but if the idler got knocked when you were reinstalling the cover and didn't land in the keeper for it in the cover the system will bind up pretty well immediately.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, you were spot on, one of the rods was not seated in the cover.

Bike starts and runs fine and thankfully the oil was clean when i drained it, no metal filings and everything looks clean and undamaged.

Went on a 120 mile ride today and noticed a little oil was leaking out of the cover somewhere when I got home, I'm guessing I need to take it off and do a better job cleaning it, I also stuck it straight on after applying the liquid gasket and I've now been told I should of let it semi dry first.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks, you were spot on, one of the rods was not seated in the cover.

Bike starts and runs fine and thankfully the oil was clean when i drained it, no metal filings and everything looks clean and undamaged.

Went on a 120 mile ride today and noticed a little oil was leaking out of the cover somewhere when I got home, I'm guessing I need to take it off and do a better job cleaning it, I also stuck it straight on after applying the liquid gasket and I've now been told I should of let it semi dry first.
Thanks for coming back and updating.

This was a classic case of important information not being passed, could have saved a bunch of time and trouble has we known.

Essentially, the clutch cover and case should “seal” without any gasket if the two surfaces are perfectly straight and smooth and the idea of the sealing isn’t to create a “gasket” but simply smooth out any impurities on the surfaces and create a thin seal between them. So what you want to do is a VERY light coating around both surfaces and like you said, let it somewhat dry. Also be sure you’re using an engine liquid gasket maker like Hondabond or Yamabond, both work great for things like this.

You also want to be sure you didn’t crack or stress the case when the shaft wasn’t seated and you tightened it down, they are fragile and can easily crack by that force.

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Good point, I'll have a better look tommorow in daylight, I also think I could of undertightened the bolts on the cover as I used a really short 1/4" ratchet that wasnt giving as much torque as it seemed. Ive nipped them all up a 1/4 turn at least. Going to pick up a torque wrench to rule that out in future.
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 07:36 PM
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loose bolts won't cause your issues. sadly i'm very doubtful your issue is anything less than worst case scenario at the moment.
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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I think it is coming out from the oil cap. It got loads worse, my boot and rear tyre on the right side was saturated in oil.

I replaced my missing oil cap with a HRC one but it didn't come with an o-ring and I totally forgot, I'm going to stick an o-ring on it, wash it down and see if it sorts it.

UPDATE: was the oil cap.

Last edited by RR3; 09-29-2018 at 12:32 AM.
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