Bike won't start; no fuel prime and rpm and mph do not move on "on" position - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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Bike won't start; no fuel prime and rpm and mph do not move on "on" position

The bike has been sitting for 4-5 years. Replaced battery. Everything lights up but the gauge doesnt do the rpm and mph check. Fuel gauge at one point did the fuel system error which im assuming is the fuel pump (has a faint whirring noise when pressing my ear against the tank). Then it reads a full tank of gas (which is). Fuel relay clicks once.

Is there a sensor i need to check before replacing parts?

EDIT: Needle and mph move now. lol...will update on the pump

Last edited by dankneeton; 09-12-2018 at 02:21 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
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Gauge needle and mph work now? lol...will update on teh pump
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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So i took the tank out to inspect the brown connector. no voltage; however just to check to see if my multimeter sucks, i checked the black connector and is getting voltage. service manual says to check main fuse (good), bank angle fuse (good), sub fuse (good) relays i used a lead tester, doesnt read (not sure why) but the relay doesnt click when put in the "on" position, when i removed the engine cut the buzzing sound near the injectors stop, but when i put it back the buzz comes on (not sure if thats a problem), disconnected and reconnected fuel pump relay and it clicks, moved around the relays to see if theres any volatge going to the brown connector (nothing). played around with bank angle sensor and the relay clicks, last thing to check is the ecm...any thoughts fellas?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 08:30 PM
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Obviously make sure your bank angle sensor is plugged in. Fuel pump won't prime without it. You can jump the two outside connectors on the bikeside plug to fake it into believing you have a working BAS.

This is likely not your issue.

But do check the frame ground. Left side of bike behind Regulator. This can get corroded and you can even get a crack along the thin part that connects to the frame.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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the bike only has 4k miles although it is a 07 and garage stored. all of the wires look new. only thing i havent checked the ecm and the connectors (could it have failed sitting in the garage?), and not sure how to check it. manual says to put the (+) multimeter to a4 and a5 and (-) to ground with no readings (not sure im doing it right TBH).

i would really like to try and figure this out at home so if anyone is willing to help me solve this problem ill be happy to paypal you.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 01:45 AM
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for the fuel pump to prime, the engine stop relay must be satisfied. similarly, for the fuel pump to prime the ECM must be powered up and ready to go.



you should unplug all connectors and clean them, then pack with dielectric grease. chances are nothing has gone bad, you are just missing a signal that the bike requires.


i know this response is nebulous, but it suits your original post. if you want a detailed response you must provide a detailed description of the issue. (what happens with key on, what happens when you toggle the kill switch, does the engine stop relay click when you toggle the kill switch, are there any lights on the dash, when you toggle the kill switch does the fuel pump relay click, then click again a few seconds later)


though these bikes are VERY simple, there are a lot of things that can create a lot of symptoms, it's very difficult to accurately provide a solution to an issue when you have not been given appropriate information to begin with


people always want an easy out, but you aren't likely to get it. do YOUR work first, then turn it over to those who can help.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
i know this response is nebulous, but it suits your original post. if you want a detailed response you must provide a detailed description of the issue. (what happens with key on, what happens when you toggle the kill switch, does the engine stop relay click when you toggle the kill switch, are there any lights on the dash, when you toggle the kill switch does the fuel pump relay click, then click again a few seconds later).
dash lights up as well and the rpm needle and mph going up and down. brand new battery put it. fuel pump relay clicks on on position and clicks again after a sec or 2. as for the engine stop relay, it has a buzzing noise for 1 sec. bought another relay and still just the buzzing noise. checked engine stop relay terminals and has 10~ volts. kill switch works. unplugged ecm connectors and checked a4 and a3 (red into connector, black on ground), still no volts; however when put into 200vm on the multimeter , it reads maybe around 1.0~. same with the brown connector (reads less than 1.0 using 200vm). kill switch works (fuel relay clicks).

in the manual it says to use an adapter to check the bank angle (which i dont have). i tilted the bank angle, toggled the kill switch and the fuel relay doesnt click, but when its in the right position, the fuel pump relay clicks. checked all fuses and theyre good.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 11:24 AM
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when you toggle the kill switch does the FI light come on on the dash for a few seconds then go out? your explanation of things thus far doesn't make a ton of sense to be honest.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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yes, for like 1 second
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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im a noob..sorry..
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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quote the part that doesnt make sense and ill send pictures and a video....
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 11:00 PM
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If all your fuses are good, the fi light comes on and goes out with the kill switch, and the fuel pump primes. The bike is ready to start. If you have 12v going to the coil side of the relay but only 10 volts across the coil you could have an issue with the bank angle sensor. It provides the ground to the engine stop relay. This is easy to bypass just connect the two outside wires in the connector. I believe they are a red and a green.


If the fuel pump relay clicks then there is power to the pump. If you measure from the relay output (brown I think?) To ground you should find 12v for the prime cycle, then nothing afterwards.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
If you have 12v going to the coil side of the relay but only 10 volts across the coil you could have an issue with the bank angle sensor. It provides the ground to the engine stop relay. This is easy to bypass just connect the two outside wires in the connector. I believe they are a red and a green.
I'm getting 11 volts on the relay on the coil side.

Bypassed the bank angles sensor with a paper clip. fuel pump relay clicks, but still not getting any voltage readings to the brown connector.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 09:58 AM
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The fuel pump relay coil and contact are powered by the same source (the black/white that is fed from the engine stop contact). So if the relay pulls then the contact should be energized as well.

The Bas doesn't control the fuel pump relay though. It controls the engine stop relay


I still feel that you aren't explaining clearly what's happening.

Is the engine stop relay clicking with the kill switch?

Is the fuel pump relay clicking once then again a few seconds after the engine stop?

When you check your voltage at the pump you ate checking the brown wire with respect to the green wire? You are doing this within the 2 or so second prime cycle?




If you want to force the fuel pump to run, use a paperclip to force the brown/black wire in the ecu black connector pin 21 to ground

When you do this the fuel pump relay will click and you should have power on the pump. If you don't have power on the pump you have either a broken splice, a corroded wire or broken wire, or a bad fuel pump relay (very unlikely)

If the fuel pump relay does not click when you ground the brown/black then there is no power to the fuel cut relay, which means the engine stop relay is not satisfied. Though you claim it is so I'll leave you there for now.

Last edited by wibbly; 09-29-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 04:10 PM
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Crazy thought, but since you haven't made it clear yet what is going on, why don't you just do something real simple, and check to see that you are getting 12v to your fuel pump during the priming stage?

Remove tank cover, and lift up the tank, don't remove the tank, or any lines, just life it up on its hinge. Then unplug the connector that goes to the fuel pump. I believe you should see two connectors, the one in the middle of the tank should be the one that goes to your fuel pump.

Remove that connector and pull it to the side so you can probe the two wires (might have to remove the other connector as well so you have a little more wire to play with). I attached a test lead to the plastic of the fuel pump connector and hung it over and down the outside of the bikes frame (the weight of the wire prevented the connector from flopping back under the tank).

I then setup to meter 12v with the bike on, by flipping kill switch from OFF to ON. I saw 12v for a couple seconds after the kill switch was turned on, this was the bike trying to prime the fuel pump. If you get 12v there, the service manual states, you have a bad fuel pump. Sure enough, I replaced the pump, and bike is running again.

Should take you about 15 to 20 minutes.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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OMG....i feel like an idiot...I didn't know you're suppose to check the brown connector during the priming stage. It reads a little less than 12 volts. It's definitely the fuel pump. I guess it went bad after sitting for so long.

I'll PM both members that helped out.

Would buying the fuel pump vs the whole assembly be suffice?

https://www.amazon.com/HFP-387-CBR-C...0+fuel+pump+07

Thanks guys, i learned a lot.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dankneeton View Post
OMG....i feel like an idiot...I didn't know you're suppose to check the brown connector during the priming stage. It reads a little less than 12 volts. It's definitely the fuel pump. I guess it went bad after sitting for so long.

I'll PM both members that helped out.

Would buying the fuel pump vs the whole assembly be suffice?

https://www.amazon.com/HFP-387-CBR-C...0+fuel+pump+07

Thanks guys, i learned a lot.
Cheers for "maybe" getting your bike running, won't know until the new pump is installed!

As far as aftermarket pumps, I got like what... 12k miles out of an amazon HiFlo pump... OEM pump is the way to go.

12k miles (HiFlo) vs 64k miles (OEM) and still running.
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