Front brake lever hard to pull - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Front brake lever hard to pull

Replaced my girlfriends clutch and brake levers with some aftermarket ones. The brake works fine then when it sits for a bit, it becomes hard to pull like air is being let in. I re installed them again with the same issue persisting, and even bled the brakes. I can't for the life of me figure out wtf is going on with the front brakes.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Just to clarify, there's too much pressure in the brake system for me to even pull the lever an inch. The brakes worked fine before I installed the lever. I replaced the levers the same way I replaced mine on my 08 without this issue. So I'm at a loss right now
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 03:35 PM
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Make 100% sure you have the proper lever mount/perch and that the little nipple from the master cylinder goes all the way straight into the recess on the perch. In this recess there's a ball-nut thing that can block the nipple from going in as deep as it needs to.

I had this happen on my 09. The result is that the lever essentially engages the brake partially before you even activate the lever.

Does your front wheel spin freely with no brake applied? If not then some amount of brake is being applied.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bat-1 View Post
Make 100% sure you have the proper lever mount/perch and that the little nipple from the master cylinder goes all the way straight into the recess on the perch. In this recess there's a ball-nut thing that can block the nipple from going in as deep as it needs to.

I had this happen on my 09. The result is that the lever essentially engages the brake partially before you even activate the lever.

Does your front wheel spin freely with no brake applied? If not then some amount of brake is being applied.
I haven't been able to test the front wheel freespin yet. When I bled the brakes it worked like normal and the within minutes the pressure builds up until it won't pull any more. I'm a little confused what you mean by perch/nipple. Are you referring to that rubber plunger thing that goes into the open area within the lever?
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jawsolsen333 View Post
I haven't been able to test the front wheel freespin yet. When I bled the brakes it worked like normal and the within minutes the pressure builds up until it won't pull any more. I'm a little confused what you mean by perch/nipple. Are you referring to that rubber plunger thing that goes into the open area within the lever?
Yea, the plunger thing is what I'm calling a nipple. If it doesn't enter the open area straight and deep it will apply brake. When it happened to me I had just done a brake fluid flush and was proud of myself how firm the lever felt. It was firm because it was like 20% engaged. My front wheel spun but not as freely as it should.

When I took the test drive afterwards my caliper locked up after a few applications.

I can't see any scenario where a system pressurizes itself by sitting.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bat-1 View Post
Yea, the plunger thing is what I'm calling a nipple. If it doesn't enter the open area straight and deep it will apply brake. When it happened to me I had just done a brake fluid flush and was proud of myself how firm the lever felt. It was firm because it was like 20% engaged. My front wheel spun but not as freely as it should.

When I took the test drive afterwards my caliper locked up after a few applications.

I can't see any scenario where a system pressurizes itself by sitting.
Yeah that's the issue. It works fine then within minutes starts to pressurize. Today I went back out to check it and it was as stiff as could be. I don't know if air is entering the system somehow and pressurizing it or what 😔
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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I'm gonna check to make sure there's nothing inside the lever that's stopping that nipple from going in all the way
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 08:34 PM
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Put the stock levers back on and see if it goes back to normal operation.

My bet is it will.

Aftermarket levers are hit and miss, mostly hit but a lot of miss. @Bat-1 is probably onto the issue.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
Put the stock levers back on and see if it goes back to normal operation.

My bet is it will.

Aftermarket levers are hit and miss, mostly hit but a lot of miss. @Bat-1 is probably onto the issue.
Interesting. I'm betting that the plunger off the MC isn't seated correctly into the lever. I reinstalled it twice and it's still doing it but maybe I just wasn't aware of that issue so I wasn't making sure it was seated properly I'm gonna throw the stock one back on like you said to figure out if it's just the lever and not something wrong within the system
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 07:23 AM
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That's almost certainly it as air entering the system would result in a softer lever (gases compress, liquids don't).

On most lever mounts the part the plunger goes in has a type of ball/nut deep in the recess that has to be lined up to make the recess deep enough or it blocks the plunger.

With Chinese lever sets the levers are mostly the same, only the mounts change. They usually have a model number stamped onto them. This bike needs the F33 mount. The very similar F35 looks the same but will cause these symptoms.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat-1 View Post
That's almost certainly it as air entering the system would result in a softer lever (gases compress, liquids don't).

On most lever mounts the part the plunger goes in has a type of ball/nut deep in the recess that has to be lined up to make the recess deep enough or it blocks the plunger.

With Chinese lever sets the levers are mostly the same, only the mounts change. They usually have a model number stamped onto them. This bike needs the F33 mount. The very similar F35 looks the same but will cause these symptoms.
just checked and its the F33, and all that inside the brake lever is like a recess with a gold bar or something. theres no notch in the bar so it seems like the plunger pretty much stays up against this gold thing. I did notice that there was a notch on the inside of the recess off to the side like the plunger was possibly off to the side a little and was resting up against that opposed to against that gold part, i just tried reinstalling but the lever is still somewhat stiff which i assume is because the brake pads are snuggly up against the caliper to the point where i feel i should take off the calipers and press back the brake pad piston

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:42 AM
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The little gold cylinder should rotate, I think. There should be a small hole in the gold cylinder for the plunger coming off the MC to seat into. I took a little flashlight and tried to get my eyes as close to line-of-sight with the plunger as possible when I reinstalled my shorty levers so that I could see the plunger going into the hole in the little gold cylinder. I'll try and take a picture tonight when I get home.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 09:30 PM
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I need some help
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Disturbed1115 View Post
The little gold cylinder should rotate, I think. There should be a small hole in the gold cylinder for the plunger coming off the MC to seat into. I took a little flashlight and tried to get my eyes as close to line-of-sight with the plunger as possible when I reinstalled my shorty levers so that I could see the plunger going into the hole in the little gold cylinder. I'll try and take a picture tonight when I get home.
If there's suppose to be a hole in the gold cylinder then that is definitely the problem because there wasn't at all. I figured maybe I could rotate it but I had no idea how I would even do that. if you could take a picture that would help so much, and maybe some insight into how to rotate it !
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 08:18 PM
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Have you put the OEM levers back on to see if everything worked as it should?

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Have you put the OEM levers back on to see if everything worked as it should?
No I've been wanting to but I'm almost certain that something's wrong with the lever
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 01:30 PM
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This was the best I could do without disassembling things over my lunch break, hopefully this explains what I described above. On the underside of the lever you can see where the gold colored cylindrical piece is installed into the lever, held in with a cir-clip. Should be easy to rotate the cylinder from either the side of the lever, or the underside. On the top view hopefully you'll be able to make out the plunger inserted into the hole in the gold cylinder. I think you have just been installing the lever with the gold cylinder rotated the wrong way.

As for rotating the cylinder, I think I just used a small flathead precision screwdriver and was able to rotate it; there was not a lot of resistance. Worst case, you pull the cir-clip on the underside, re-install cylinder in the proper orientation, and re-install the cir-clip.

Hope this helps! hopefully I'm not sending you off on a goose chase.
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Last edited by Disturbed1115; 10-03-2018 at 01:33 PM.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 01:34 PM
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That gold cylinder should swivel (easily). Use a pick to turn it. A toothpick will work unless yours is stuck or was machined too large.

I happen to have one of these mounts handy. Photos show cylinder with detent (this is what yours needs to look like when installing) and blocked.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!! I'm gonna check this out tonight. So when you rotate it, should you rotate it from the underside where that clip is? Or try and rotate the cylinder where the plunger would go? And I either Case, I'm guessing just put some pressure on it with whatever object and try to rotate it?
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Mines definitely blocked for sure
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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Update**** it was definitely blocked and when I took the lever off, it was partially already rotated to where I could see the hole. You guys are awesome in helping me out stating that there was a hole in that gold piece to begin with. I've installed levers twice with no issues, so this threw me through a loop. This was for my girlfriends bike actually so I was more so concerned for her safety and it was eating away at me that I couldn't figure out the problem haha
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 08:38 AM
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The way you can tell that you got it installed correctly is that you'll hear a slight click when you first engage the lever. I think that's the pressure plate on the lever engaging the plunger.

If you hear no click the pressure plate is always engaging the plunger and thereby putting slight pressure on your brakes.

If you drive around this way the heat generated will quickly lock your caliper. If you don't have an 8mm wrench along to release the pressure at the bleeder you will be stuck with locked brakes in the middle of the road. Ask me how I know.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 11:30 AM
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Just to be clear, the issue is not that the preload on the plunger is actually applying the brakes. The problem is that the preload on the plunger closes the system.

When the lever is released the plunger has to move past the port to the reservoir. This allows fluid from the system to travel back into the reservoir.

If the plunger cannot travel past this port, the fluid remains trapped between the calipers and plunger. As the fluid heats and expands it cannot migrate into the reservoir, and the brake pressure increases.


This is why the stock master has such a long dead band. The initial plunger travel actually moves fluid into the reservoir before it ever creates brake pressure.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 03:53 PM
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Thanks for clarifying that wibbly. I wasn't certain what exactly was going on but on mine it also restricted the front wheel from spinning freely so I figured a small amount of brake was being applied.
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 07:28 PM
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The click you hear is the pin switch that activates the brake light, not the plunger.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jawsolsen333 View Post
No I've been wanting to but I'm almost certain that something's wrong with the lever
Yeah, its called China and Ebay. Your lucky it didn't lock up the front brakes while riding as has happened to numerous people over the years using these crap parts.

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-04-2018, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, its called China and Ebay. Your lucky it didn't lock up the front brakes while riding as has happened to numerous people over the years using these crap parts.
It was just that the gold cylinder part inside the lever wasn't rotated to where the plunger was going inside of it. I never knew that sort of a thing existed seeing as I've put on levers a couple of times and never had that issue. I agree the levers are cheaply painted, cheap stuff. But besides this minor issue, I've never had an issue with them. Except for the paint to fade
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