04 cbr600rr no spark!!! Please help!!! - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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04 cbr600rr no spark!!! Please help!!!

Hello, I am new to the forum but i am very familiar with 600RRs especially 03-04, 05-06.
Having said this i have learned how finicky this particular system is and the trouble that comes with diagnosing the electrical system. I have researched the problem extensively and tried everything they suggested. I have the user manual and the equipment to do the tests etc.

I have power and the bike turns over.
The fuel pump primes, relay clicks
There is power to the coils, no spark.

Things i have checked/etc:
-Ignition is correct (has zener diode), Pink wire has 9volts reference
-Tipover bypassed
-Main Grounds are tested and good
-Battery has voltage and is not undercharged
-ECM power and ground lines tested good, Black/white has power, Grounds have continuity
-All safety components checked for operation and continuity, they work
eliminated to verify.
-Replaced Crank sensor, Replaced Killswitch, Replaced ECM, No Difference
-Tested with two different harnesses, No difference Tested with different sub harnesses, No difference
-Through inspection of all connectors,connections, wires etc, looks intact/solid

Question #1: Is the Black/White wire supposed to be grounded by ECM, Should it have power or be grounded when plugged in??? CAN SOMEONE VERIFY ON THEIR BIKE???

Question #2: At the coils, BOTH the colored wired side AND the black/white side have power!!! IS THIS CORRECT??? Or should there be power/ground?? OR is the spark plug the ground??

Question #3: On the dash, before starting, SHOULD THE FI LIGHT STAY ON AFTER THE PUMP CYCLES, OR DOES IT GO OUT?? (My FI light goes out)
***Side note: (With the Engine sub harness disconnected it stays on)

Question #4: How many times should the fuel cut relay click?? (MINE CLICKS TWICE)???

Question #5: When checking for power and ground at the safety switches, they are all grounded, Is this correct or should there be power/ground.

Question #6: When i check continuity at the killswitch, the book says there should only be continuity at certain wires when the start button is pressed or free . only one wire is giving me the proper reading, Blue/White) All the others have it pushed or free doesn't matter. IS THIS CORRECT?

I have also had weird readings coming from neutral line, oil pressure line, the safety system circuit and the brake light circuit. Some have power on both sides, Some are grounded both sides. This would tell me there is a short but i have checked and nothing. Plus it happens with both harnesses, computers, kill switch etc. Other things i noticed are the system drops about three volts when cranking, Theres a weird 5 volt reference when checking continuity on some of the engine sub harness components.

If I can have some of my questions answered i would really appreciate that, it would give me a better idea of what I'm dealing with. If you have any insight or have been through the same issue i could really use the help. Thank you for your time!!

Last edited by YugenMoto; 10-30-2018 at 06:26 PM.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 06:36 PM
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Question #1: Is the Black/White wire supposed to be grounded by ECM, Should it have power or be grounded when plugged in??? CAN SOMEONE VERIFY ON THEIR BIKE???

with the kill switch off, the black/white will probably tone to ground, with it on you should see 12v on it


Question #2: At the coils, BOTH the colored wired side AND the black/white side have power!!! IS THIS CORRECT??? Or should there be power/ground?? OR is the spark plug the ground??

the coils are fed 12v constant, they are switched to ground by the ECU to trigger a spark. when you have zero current in the circuit you drop zero volts across the coil (V=IR, I=0), so you'll read 12v on both sides

Question #3: On the dash, before starting, SHOULD THE FI LIGHT STAY ON AFTER THE PUMP CYCLES, OR DOES IT GO OUT?? (My FI light goes out)
***Side note: (With the Engine sub harness disconnected it stays on)

when the ecu powers on, the EFI light will come on for the fuel pump cycle, then extinguish

Question #4: How many times should the fuel cut relay click?? (MINE CLICKS TWICE)???

the fuel pump relay clicks on to prime the pump, then off after the prime cycle (two clicks = on then off)

Question #5: When checking for power and ground at the safety switches, they are all grounded, Is this correct or should there be power/ground.

the kickstand when satisfied will connect the negative from the starter motor coil to ground

the neutral switch when satisfied connects the neutral wire to ground

the clutch switch when pulled will connect the negative from the stater motor coil to ground via the kickstand switch (because the ground provided by the neutral switch is unavailable)

Question #6: When i check continuity at the killswitch, the book says there should only be continuity at certain wires when the start button is pressed or free . only one wire is giving me the proper reading, Blue/White) All the others have it pushed or free doesn't matter. IS THIS CORRECT?

the kill switch connects the white/black to the black/white. nothing more.

the start button is a single pole double throw switch, red/black is common (12v), blue white is normally closed (headlight), yellow/red is normally open (starter relay coil positive), you should check continuity between red/black and yellow/red and check that it is continuity with the button pressed. you will never have continuity between blue/white and yellow/red















this is all off the top of my head and applying the logic and wire colour standards that honda tends to use. it may not be 100% correct but will be VERY close.





if the starter motor turns, it's not the kickstand switch

if the starter motor turns, it's not the neutral switch

if the fuel pump primes, it's not the kill switch

if the fuel pump primes, it's not the bank angle sensor




have you actually tested for spark at the coils?
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Wibbly, I was hoping you would answer my questions. I have seen your name in the other forum threads and you are truly an ace!!!

That was my original problem. Everything was good but wouldn't fire. when pulling the coil and grounding the plug i got nothing. I tried all four connectors, I tried all different coils, Even ones from a zx6r, nothing. I tried two different (used) but known good plugs, nothing. Im going today to buy a brand new plug to try and i can let you know, but so far the spark test came back negative. My reason for replacing all the components, since everything else seemed normal, etc. Checked the ECM power, Ground, normal. Swapped ECM and still nothing.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 06:57 PM
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do you have 12 volts on the immobilizer pin?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Would the immobilizer pin be the Ignition pink wire? If not which # pin at the connector is it? At the pink wire I'm getting 9 volts reference.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 11:09 PM
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i'm probably wrong about that one. it's probably a later model thing. i never owned an 03-06.


i don't have a diagram for yours, do you?
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Yes i can look into the manual and at least see which pin it is on HISS equipped bikes.

UPDATE:
-Using a brand new spark plug did not change the spark test
-Killswitch relay is warm, with little to no cranking (i.e power on)
-I have continuity at the red/black and yellow/red wires at the killswitch
-Crank sensor wires are both grounded, when i probe (i believe) the power side the fuel pump spins and the relay clicks, Normal??

At this point I'm not sure what else to do, its an idiom. The system is working but no spark is produced.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 12:02 AM
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Have you checked the cam position sensor?
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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I just did, It is a 2 prong connector with one Green/Orange wire and one Gray wire. I have continuity on the Green/Orange wire, no reading on the Gray wire.

When I crank the motor, I get a 14V reference, Nothing from the Gray wire.

When test lighting i have no power to either but the Green/Orange is grounded
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 12:09 PM
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you shouldn't have 14 volts anywhere near that sensor. it's a 5v system.


i think you need to read the manual as your testing methods are suspicious. you need to know what you're looking for before you can properly trouble shoot



what happened that caused this issue? did it just suddenly happen when you were riding? did you work on the bike and then it stopped working? based on the behavior of the bike it sounds like the ecu isn't seeing the signal to fire.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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That was my guess and why i bought a replacement ECM. From the tests everything checked out, but seemed certain components are not getting, or giving a signal. The power and ground lines for the ECM checked out and the book recommends replacing the ECM with a known good one. As for my testing methods I'm pretty sure I'm using the voltmeter and test light correctly, just not getting proper readings because the sensors are out of whack?? I looked in the manual and the only section about the cam position sensor is the install/removal section. I was not finding anything on how to test the sensor or its related circuits.

The bike was running perfect. It had fallen off its kickstand because the stand was a bit bent. After trying to get the alignment back, it seemed either the frame or steering stem had been bent. So i had to take it to my frame straightnng people. To do that i disassembled the whole bike. (I don't have a truck) and reassembled it at their shop. The harness and computer stayed with me and i kept both in a safe, secure place. I got the bike back after awhile all fixed. I put everything back together. I went to fire the bike. Everything worked, power, fuel pump etc. Then no start, just cranking. First thing i did was a Spark Test, Nothing. i checked all the basics and Did everything i said originally in this post, No spark still. after that i bought a new crank sensor, Nothing. Known good ECM, Same problem, and another killswitch just in case. Nothing changed. It is literally an idiom, the bikes system is working but theres no spark.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YugenMoto View Post
after that i bought a new crank sensor, Nothing. Known good ECM, Same problem, and another killswitch just in case.
Where's Wibbly?

At this point you might as well try a kitchen sink while you're at it.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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I know its crazy, I've dealt with the whole fuel pump not priming etc. that was a battle but this is turning into a nightmare. Everything works but it doesn't lol

wibbly i meant 0.14V reference at the Orange/Green wire.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:09 PM
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BTW, I think your '04 model has the zener diode thing in the ignition housing. Might want to examine that. Pretty sure it's a simple solder fix, maybe need to purchase a new one. You need 9v on that. You can test with a 9v battery.

You're welcome :)

Last edited by Axel Nut; 10-31-2018 at 04:13 PM.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 05:35 PM
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if you had the entire thing apart, and back together again, my main suspicion is you have something plugged in to the wrong place
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ignition is working, have zener diode already installed. Has 9 volts reference at the pink wire. Also have OEM ignition to test, same results.

Most of the plugs and connectors are special fit and the harness I'm using is still factory taped so everything has a route and direction etc. Im familiar with the harness routing and connection/component location.

All my grounds have tested good, including the motor ground.

I have 0.11-0.17 reference voltage at both Cam sensor and Crank sensor when cranking the motor over

Im not sure if this is anything but when checking the Crank sensor with my test light both sides are grounded but with the Cam sensor i get a reading only on one side???
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 07:15 PM
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the cam and crank sensors are sourcing hall effects. they have a 5v positive line, a negative line and a pulse output.


you need a scope to read them correctly.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Ok was just hoping that information might give a clue into whats going on. At this point I'm waiting on a local to try my computers on their bike/their computer on my bike. Also trying to source a local cam sensor just to test if price is right.

Wibbly what tests can i do that will give you a better idea of whats going on???
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 07:28 PM
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you can try to set your meter on DC and check voltage between the pulse output of the sensor and the ground (Green/orange). it will only give you the average voltage so at low speeds it will show very low, but it should be >0


you'll have to find a way to probe the harness with the connectors all plugged in when you're doing this.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YugenMoto View Post
I know its crazy, I've dealt with the whole fuel pump not priming etc. that was a battle but this is turning into a nightmare. Everything works but it doesn't lol

wibbly i meant 0.14V reference at the Orange/Green wire.


Sorry to interject on this thread, but how did you manage to fix your fuel priming issue?
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2018, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply I managed to figure it out. It turns out the CAM SENSOR was bad and my suspicion is it came about when moving the motor around, I should have checked/replaced it first as I did with the crank sensor. With my test light on the power side of the battery both crank sensor and cam sensor are grounded on both sides, originally only the crank sensor was giving me that reading. This along with some visuals signs, (missing epoxy I put on to protect the cam sensor wires) helped to determine my issue. I replaced the sensor and it sparked no problem. Thank you for all your help Wibbly!!!
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