2004 600RR won't start... very bizarre... - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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2004 600RR won't start... very bizarre...

Hello all, first post!
I just want to warn you all ahead of time that I'm a complete noob when it comes to mechanical issues and bikes in general, so please forgive my ignorance.

I just about a month ago bought a 2004 CBR600RR with just under 6000 miles on it, absolutely no mods whatsoever besides a fender eliminator. When I picked it up, it started up just fine. I rode it up and down the street in front of the guy's house and it ran like a charm. We loaded it up on my dad's truck and I drove it home. When I got it off the truck, I started it up just to show my friends and it started up just fine. Fast forward to the next morning. At this point I think I should mention that the temperature got into the teens that night and couldn't have been more than upper twenties at this point. I tried to start it up, and nothing. NOTHING. It turned over, but it just wouldn't start. I had some things to do that morning, so I put it in my shed and decided to give it a try later.

I came back a couple hours later for another go, and same deal. I looked in the manual at that point and read about the engine possibly being flooded with fuel. I tried the procedure described in the manual to clear out the engine, but still nothing, and on top of that, my battery was dying. So I ordered a charger.

Fast forward to the charger getting here. I pretty much ran down the battery again trying to get the thing started, but still nothing. I'm at a loss, really. I have a couple of theories as to what may be going on, but like I said, I'm not really mechanically inclined, so I don't know which sounds the most likely.

Theory #1
----------
I messed up the spark plugs. Trying to start it up and possibly leaving the engine flooded I think may have messed up the spark plugs.

Theory #2
----------
The bike is too cold. The manual says it should start in any temperature, but I know that 40's and below aren't ideal temps for a bike. My shed isn't heated, so any time I've tried to start it it's been nice and cold. One friend with a 2001 929 suggested putting it in my basement and letting it warm up for a week or so and then giving it another shot.

Theory #3
----------
Something is going on that I have no clue about because I'm a mechanical idiot. This is where you guys come in. If you have any ideas other than the ones I've listed above, please let me know!

It's winter, so I'm not missing out on a whole lot of riding time, but there have been a few warm days where I've seen other riders out and I've been sadly wishing my CBR would start. PLEASE LET ME KNOW ABOUT ANY IDEAS YOU MAY HAVE!!! Thanks
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 06:19 AM
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Hold the throttle wide open ( to avoid fouling the spark plugs )
and the bike will start up it will take afew trials so make sure
the battery is fully charged up . Do not let go of the throttle
until you feel the bike can hold a steady idle on its own
then let it run on its own till the fan kicks on temp of 221 F or so
best of luck any questions post them up here



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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 08:03 AM
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+1 to what moeman said.

same thing happend with my 04 a while back after not riding it for like a week.

cranking it while just holding WOT didn't work for me though. I had to keep snapping the throttle from closed to WOT aggressively, finally it started it up.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm... I'll give that a shot. I haven't tried that yet. Thanks for the input, I'll keep you guys posted.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 10:09 AM
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It sounds as if the battery is not turning the starter over due to a low battery charge. this is what happens when you start it repeatedly without allowing the bike to recharge the battery. do you hear a rapid clicking coming from the seat area as you attempt to start?

all you gotta do is charge the battery. 900mA for 10 hours should do it. if you don't have a charger that can supply that low an amperage, find one that does less than 4A and start charging. 4A for an hour is a rapid charge and should allow you to tell if it's just a low battery issue, which i believe it to be. otherwise i suggest you charge it @ 2A for 4 hours for a nice charge. that's all it needs.

a word though. if you're not riding the bike, take the battery out when you charge it. toss a cover over the bike, and don't come back to install the battery until you are ready to ride. this is for the bike's well being, not your own.
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 12:41 PM
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My brother went down on some gravel and had the bike towed home. hHe thought there was a hole in the stator cap that was leaking oil so he put some JB Weld on it. Eventually it never started - it would crank just not turn over. Finally, he popped the clutch going down a hill and it has run fine ever since.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 12:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacketlm View Post
he popped the clutch going down a hill and it has run fine ever since.

+1 just push start it. and if you start your bike its best to ride for a little while and not just rev it up. moisture will build up in the exhaust and reving it up for your buddies will not get rid of the moisture, but riding a little will.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Neither of the first two replies worked (on a fully charged battery).

To knightslugger:
The battery is going into the bike fresh off the charger, I do not hear a clicking, and I am aware of the damaging effects of the cold on batteries and removed it from my bike every time I let it sit.

To sacketlm:
There aren't any convenient hills around my area... plus absolutely nothing has happened to the bike since it last started, so I'm saving bump starting as a last resort.

Another one of my friends suggested that the cold may be making the gas separate... would fuel stabilizer potentially help?
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2 View Post
Neither of the first two replies worked (on a fully charged battery).

To knightslugger:
The battery is going into the bike fresh off the charger, I do not hear a clicking, and I am aware of the damaging effects of the cold on batteries and removed it from my bike every time I let it sit.

To sacketlm:
There aren't any convenient hills around my area... plus absolutely nothing has happened to the bike since it last started, so I'm saving bump starting as a last resort.

Another one of my friends suggested that the cold may be making the gas separate... would fuel stabilizer potentially help?
run and jump on in second. if you look at the the photo in my sig, i drainded my batt taking pics with the key up (batt was beat) and when i had to leave i ran down the alley hopped on and kept it moving. Or just have a buddy push you, you don't need to be going that fast.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:16 PM
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fuel stabilizer isnt what you need in this case.. what you need to do is put it in second gear, hold in the clutch and run next to the bike to about 10 mph and dump the clutch.. its not hard to do and this way you can see if your bike will run on its own..
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2 View Post
Neither of the first two replies worked (on a fully charged battery).

To knightslugger:
The battery is going into the bike fresh off the charger, I do not hear a clicking, and I am aware of the damaging effects of the cold on batteries and removed it from my bike every time I let it sit.
Is there any power to the bike at all? when you connect the terminals, does the RPM needle cycle?
post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 02:01 PM
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there is a 20A 0fuse in the rear of the bike near the battery in a clear(light yellowish possibly) Flip cover box ,check that ,without it the fuel pump relay wont fire.It may also be the realy itself
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the RPM needle cycles, yes the bike is getting power, no I don't think it's the fuse because I hear what I've come to understand is the fuel pump when I turn the key from off to on while the RPM needle and MPH gauge cycles, and in order to get to some flat ground, I need to push it up a lengthy hill... I would prefer any method that doesn't involve moving the bike while it's off.

I never said I was mentally retarded, just mechanically.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 02:24 PM
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this is stupid.. stop being lazy and push the bike!!!!
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2 View Post
Yes, the RPM needle cycles, yes the bike is getting power, no I don't think it's the fuse because I hear what I've come to understand is the fuel pump when I turn the key from off to on while the RPM needle and MPH gauge cycles, and in order to get to some flat ground, I need to push it up a lengthy hill... I would prefer any method that doesn't involve moving the bike while it's off.

I never said I was mentally retarded, just mechanically.
is it a whine sound from the fuel pump or are you just hearing the gauges click ? If the fuel pump fires up ,then it could be a ton of diff things messing with ya head
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 02:32 PM
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is it a whine sound from the fuel pump or are you just hearing the gauges click ? If the fuel pump fires up ,then it could be a ton of diff things messing with ya head
be this the case, that the fuel pump primes but hitting the start button results in zero activity at the starter, it could be as simple as a safety switch.

is the bike in neutral?
is the clutch pulled in and the kickstand up if not?
have you reset the BAS (if it's been downed)

or, when you hit the starter, does the whole bike reset? that would indicate a faulty battery, something i like to call Open Cell Syndrome.
post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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this is stupid.. stop being lazy and push the bike!!!!
This isn't about being lazy... say I do push it up my hill and bump start it, and the next time I try to start it I get the same issue? What then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcc View Post
is it a whine sound from the fuel pump or are you just hearing the gauges click ? If the fuel pump fires up ,then it could be a ton of diff things messing with ya head
I'm hearing what I've come to understand is the fuel pump priming. When I turn the cutoff switch to the off position (while the key is turned on), wait a few seconds, and turn the cutoff switch back to the on position, I hear this noise as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger View Post
be this the case, that the fuel pump primes but hitting the start button results in zero activity at the starter, it could be as simple as a safety switch.

is the bike in neutral?
is the clutch pulled in and the kickstand up if not?
have you reset the BAS (if it's been downed)

or, when you hit the starter, does the whole bike reset? that would indicate a faulty battery, something i like to call Open Cell Syndrome.
When I press the start button, the starter turns. On a warm day like today, I even get a little sputtering here and there. If you read my original post, you would see that nothing at all has happened to it since it last started.

Thank you all for your help, but it is my understanding that there is not a simple solution to this issue, and all I seem to be getting are simple answers.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 05:20 PM
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When I press the start button, the starter turns. On a warm day like today, I even get a little sputtering here and there. If you read my original post, you would see that nothing at all has happened to it since it last started.

Thank you all for your help, but it is my understanding that there is not a simple solution to this issue, and all I seem to be getting are simple answers.
alright. sounds as if the starter works, the fuel pump works, and it IS turning the engine over and will SOMETIMES give a little poot of life... it doesn't sound like you've tried to start it with the throttle at wide open yet based on replies thus far. believe it or not, this will sometimes work. it might take a few charges (unless you use your batter charger in a boosting capacity) it's a hell of a lot cheaper than bringing it to a dealership and having them diagnose it and if it works, it isn't as dumb as it sounds. give it a shot, what have you got to loose at this point?
post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger View Post
it doesn't sound like you've tried to start it with the throttle at wide open yet based on replies thus far
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2 View Post
Neither of the first two replies worked (on a fully charged battery).
You two seemed so sure of yourselves that I went through a total of 4 recharges before I gave up on that method. There's no way I'm taking it to a dealership either, a lot of friends from work are into cars and a couple have friends who work on bikes, so they would be my first choice if I run through the easy stuff and it still won't run.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 12:10 AM
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sorry, my ADD must be acting up. apologies.
post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 11:37 AM
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I'd agree here with everyone else and trying to jump start it before going into other avenues.

Also, I never pull my battery out and the bike sits in a non-heated garage. Start it up once a month and it's fine.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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I pushed the damn thing up the huge incline in my yard and THEN all the way up our street as well and I tried to bump start it, but no luck. As I was going down the hill, I let the clutch out and it sounded like it was running, so I pulled the clutch in and it stopped, so I let it back out and tried giving it some gas. Wouldn't rev any higher... it's like I wasn't even touching the gas. I know it's getting gas because I smelled it after I was done crying when I rolled to a stop with a bike that still doesn't run.

I'm thinking it may be bad gas. The original owner wasn't riding it regularly when I purchased it from him so the gas in there could in fact be very old. After I got it back here, I think the couple cold nights we had (lower teens, lower twenties) may have messed with the gas. Tomorrow I'm going to try to drain it and put new gas in. We'll see how that works.

Before anybody suggests the battery, let me say that I pulled it right off the charger.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 08:32 PM
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I pushed the damn thing up the huge incline in my yard and THEN all the way up our street as well and I tried to bump start it, but no luck. As I was going down the hill, I let the clutch out and it sounded like it was running, so I pulled the clutch in and it stopped, so I let it back out and tried giving it some gas. Wouldn't rev any higher... it's like I wasn't even touching the gas. I know it's getting gas because I smelled it after I was done crying when I rolled to a stop with a bike that still doesn't run.

I'm thinking it may be bad gas. The original owner wasn't riding it regularly when I purchased it from him so the gas in there could in fact be very old. After I got it back here, I think the couple cold nights we had (lower teens, lower twenties) may have messed with the gas. Tomorrow I'm going to try to drain it and put new gas in. We'll see how that works.

Before anybody suggests the battery, let me say that I pulled it right off the charger.
it's not the gas unless it's been in there all year long... even then it's probably not the gas. gas doesn't go bad that quickly.
post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 08:53 PM
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i am having the same problem. i did everything that everyone suggested without any luck. push start, recharged battery, checked fuses, checked gas, and i even tried taking out the spark plugs to let them dry out and reinstalling them as well. i took out the measuring tool for the spark plug gap and it slid through with a lot of extra space. i ordered new spark plugs today hopefully that will solve my problem. the tool to check should be included with your tool kit. it looks like a little metal nail file that is smooth.
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 08:58 PM
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Chip
I gave you the solution man it will work
others have had doubts before you my
suggestion worked for them best of luck
either way



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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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You two seemed so sure of yourselves that I went through a total of 4 recharges before I gave up on that method.
If you come here and get the bike running doing that, then I'll reimburse you for your time and travel expenses. How many charges should I be running through trying this?
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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i am having the same problem. i did everything that everyone suggested without any luck. push start, recharged battery, checked fuses, checked gas, and i even tried taking out the spark plugs to let them dry out and reinstalling them as well. i took out the measuring tool for the spark plug gap and it slid through with a lot of extra space. i ordered new spark plugs today hopefully that will solve my problem. the tool to check should be included with your tool kit. it looks like a little metal nail file that is smooth.
Once I run through all the easy solutions, that's going to be my next thing to try... although I'm dreading it.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:33 PM
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If you hold the throttle wide open you will not foul the plugs
that is why i made that suggestion , On and off throttle will
foul the plugs wide open throttle wont trust me on that



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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:37 PM
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i'll keep you informed of my activities as well. good luck
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Okay.... how many battery charges should this take? I tried two charges with your method and then two charges with MotoRRHead's method.
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