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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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AMA Classes

This is a stupid question, but what makes up the ama classes? I only watch superbike.. but here's how I understand em to be..

Superbike - 1000s, fixed up.. I think they can mod everything except the frame and engine?

Superstock - 1000s.. what are they allowed to mod, cuz I dont think they're bone stock, right?

Supersport - 600s, fixed up?

Formula Xtreme - 600s.. not sure what else
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 03:31 PM
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Superstock and Supersport are the limited modification classes, 1000cc and 600cc respectively

Superbike and FX are the classes that allow more extensive modifications, 1000cc and 600cc respectively


its actually not nearly as complicated as some people make it out to be, at least I don't get the confusion


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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 10:21 PM
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Also, Superstock & Supersport need to use DOT tires.
Superbike & FX use full race tires

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 11:12 PM
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superstock uses slicks as well, supersport is the only class to use DOT tires

remember the wet superstock race at Elkhart where the big issue was tire selection; slicks, cut slicks, DOTs, rains? it was madness


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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-04-2007, 08:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlDirtyRobb View Post
This is a stupid question, but what makes up the ama classes? I only watch superbike.. but here's how I understand em to be..

Superbike - 1000s, fixed up.. I think they can mod everything except the frame and engine?

Superstock - 1000s.. what are they allowed to mod, cuz I dont think they're bone stock, right?

Supersport - 600s, fixed up?

Formula Xtreme - 600s.. not sure what else
Not a stupid question.. I think AMA is just stupid.. why can't they just follow FIM rules and avoid all the confusion... stupid national series
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-04-2007, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by airforce101t View Post
superstock uses slicks as well, supersport is the only class to use DOT tires

remember the wet superstock race at Elkhart where the big issue was tire selection; slicks, cut slicks, DOTs, rains? it was madness
Oooops...sorry about that one!

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-05-2007, 05:49 PM
 
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Another gripe! I am watching the Mid-Ohio race and when one rider went down.. There were two FAT corner workers that didn't do anything... didn't pick up the bike and couldn't help the injured rider... race was red flag... STUPID AMA!!! They really need to sell their management and commercial rights to a private company... sigh...
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-05-2007, 07:01 PM
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usually the tracks are responsible for hiring corner workers. The AMA doesn't haul the same corner workers all over the country to every track...

how bout this one: "Man the hot dog I ate at that race made me sick. AMA sucks!"

the corner workers at Mid-O are hired by the track, most of them are car racing corner workers so if you want to blame somebody blame the track for not hiring good CWs

speaking of the dumbass cornerworkers:
(from superbikeplanet.com)
Quote:
Witnesses say three corner workers were pushing Hacking's bike (still in gear, with the handlebar broken) up a hill when it either bump started or the starter somehow engaged. The ZX-10R was under power and running when it ran into a pole and went through a tent.

Instead of one side needing work after the crash, now both sides of the bike were screwed.


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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airforce101t View Post
usually the tracks are responsible for hiring corner workers. The AMA doesn't haul the same corner workers all over the country to every track...

how bout this one: "Man the hot dog I ate at that race made me sick. AMA sucks!"

the corner workers at Mid-O are hired by the track, most of them are car racing corner workers so if you want to blame somebody blame the track for not hiring good CWs

speaking of the dumbass cornerworkers:
(from superbikeplanet.com)
So very true! I wish more people knew how hard we tried to put on a good race this weekend, but Mid-Ohio made it very hard.


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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 05:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by airforce101t View Post
usually the tracks are responsible for hiring corner workers. The AMA doesn't haul the same corner workers all over the country to every track...

how bout this one: "Man the hot dog I ate at that race made me sick. AMA sucks!"

the corner workers at Mid-O are hired by the track, most of them are car racing corner workers so if you want to blame somebody blame the track for not hiring good CWs

speaking of the dumbass cornerworkers:
(from superbikeplanet.com)
Well, Dorna brought in cornerworkers from Spain to Qatar, Turkey, Malaysia, and China when those countries started hosting the GP series... Sure, the tracks had to pay Dorna to host the races.. it just goes to show that a professional management team is needed to boost AMA level to be compatible to other national FIM series like CEV or BSB..

IF AMA is not responsible for CW, then they need to train the track's management to get CW and also basic training in crash management and debris retrieval processes... IF AMA avoids responsibility for CW, then AMA just don't care about the safety of the riders...

Last edited by ChemiKaze; 08-06-2007 at 05:11 AM.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 09:07 AM
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I just don't see why this incident would be cause for AMA to spend a fortune on training, transporting, boarding, etc the same cornerworkers for every event?
all of these corner workers were trained but they are human and mistakes happen, people sometimes make bad decisions

99.9% of the time cornerworkers go beyond the call of duty to help riders but one incident and the AMA is suddenly negligent ass holes?


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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 09:10 AM
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sounds like your looking for reasons to get pissed...


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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Cool.. thanks for the input :D
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by airforce101t View Post
sounds like your looking for reasons to get pissed...
I'm not the only guy who think AMA needs to revamp their effort.. I read that King Kenny feels the same way..
Besides, haven't you heard the phrase, you need to spend money to make money.. CW makes mistakes sure... and most are volunteers sure.. but management and the track marshall making the same mistakes week after week and getting paid for their job? Not good.. just makes AMA look like the world's largest club race series.. LOL AND they are not far from being the only club race series that are televised!

Last time, I checked we are supposed to be the best country in the world.. makes me wonder why our national series isn't the best in the world when compared to BSB or CEV
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 11:18 PM
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Last time, I checked we are supposed to be the best country in the world.. makes me wonder why our national series isn't the best in the world when compared to BSB or CEV
I asked you before and I'll ask you again, when is the last time a graduate from BSB or CEV won a GP title?

AMA is not perfect but as national superbike series go its not that bad off. They could certainly stand to benefit by being run by an organization like Dorna though.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 11:47 PM
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I have never been to a BSB race personally but I have a crazy feeling its not as absolutely perfect as you seem to think it is

AMA has problems but they are improving, management is getting better, the riders are working with the track management and AMA officials to make the racing safer.

Yeah, Yosh Suzuki is killing everybody and it sucks that the outcome is pretty much a given at every race but thats not the fault of the rules. The Yosh team has the best riders and the best bikes/crew on the grid every weekend. Tommy Hayden has only gotten 1 podium this year on the same bike Mladin and Spies are dominating on

the rest of the classes are great racing though

what else is it you think is just so absolutely horrible to the point that you compare it to club racing? (random curiosity)


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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-06-2007, 11:51 PM
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I'd like to see Hodgson on the American Honda next year. He did pretty good on the American Honda lab bike at Laguna. Given more testing time I think he would be fighting with Mladin and Spies, although its hard to tell without knowing how good of a bike that was (who knows what Honda has/doesn't have on that bike)


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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 02:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by G.Irish View Post
I asked you before and I'll ask you again, when is the last time a graduate from BSB or CEV won a GP title?

AMA is not perfect but as national superbike series go its not that bad off. They could certainly stand to benefit by being run by an organization like Dorna though.
I hate to go through the history books, but one guy who is leading the championship now is Stoner.. of BSB... he didn't ride the supersport or superbikes but he rode the spec class GP machines and he also raced in CEV spec classes
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 02:40 AM
 
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Why do I call AMA a club series? I guess it has to lie more to the fact that when tracks are designed, they don't have parellel harzard roads for medics or CW and marshalls to go around to get bikes or cars off the gravel trap quickly... Furthermore, in other national series, the CW have stretchers to lift an injured rider off the gravel trap as well.. I just started watching AMA two months ago since my TiVo records all Motorcycle Races... The only AMA venue I saw without a serious red flag was Laguna when the big boys were in town and Dorna was watching.. The Mid-Ohio race.. red flag, the event before Laguna that Mat Mladin crashed... red flag as well! This is really stupid.. All those riders really needed was a stretcher to grab them off the gravel trap... what about the bikes? WSBK and others have a leash to lift the bike and pull it with just a few CW.. as for AMA, I never saw anything of that sort..

These unncessary red flags occur in my local orgs... rider down boom.. not getting up quickly? boom red flag! That's why I think AMA is like a club race organization.. no offense.. to anyone racing in the series... but AMA needs to take the sport more seriously..

King Kenny has mentioned that AMA should be sold to a private company with vested commercial interest to bring more money and viewership to the sport.

BTW, The commercial holders for BSB are also the commercial holders for WSBK, so their standards are about the same.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 09:24 AM
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have you seen the tracks BSB runs? lol Most of them are just as bad as any American tracks

AMA doesn't design/build the tracks anyway, they're doing better than most can hope just getting some of these tracks to move the walls back. And do you honestly think they red flag every crash? they usually just don't show when a privateer crashes. Not really sure how hiring another company to run the series will help with track safey? Unless they bring a couple billiion $$$s to the table to build new race tracks, nothing will change. Unfortunately most of these tracks are designed for cars and used occasionally by motorcycles so we don't get priority in most cases.

so if you can't build all new tracks and can barely get the tracks to spend the millions to move back deadly walls, then how do you propose to take care of badly injured riders without stopping the races?

I can see the logic of an outside company running the series but imo thats more about promoting it and making it more mainstream than actually changing how the corner workers opperate.

and honestly, you'll see the same types of red flags in MotoGP at the older tracks (I remember one or two red flagged races last year and they only do one MotoGP race per weekend and its not a national series so the grid isn't nearly as full)

I'm not sure why you think AMA would red flag a race (at laguna for example) but at the same track with THE SAME CORNER WORKERS and THE SAME RACE CONTROL MotoGP wouldn't?

have you seen the Japanese corner workers??? when kato crashed they pretty much dragged him across the ground by one arm! (they're still that bad)


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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 02:28 PM
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oh the reason they HAD to red flag the Mid-O superbike race was that there was no way to get the bike out of the impact zone (you saw the airfence? there is a wall behind that). They couldn't continue the race with that bike sitting in what little run-off there is in that corner

oh and here is a quote from a VERY experienced corner worker:

Quote:
When I started corner working in 1991, they drilled it into my brain, that my safety comes first, then riders still on the track, the downed rider's bike, then lastly the downed rider.

CW seems to have done correctly. By moving the downed bike, they helped protect 10-20 other riders. The rider was moving under his own power, and the only thing a CW would be able to do for the rider is help him stand (if he could).


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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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True that British tracks aren't much better but their CW are! The recent Cadwell race for example! Huge crash and no reddie
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 07:39 PM
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True that British tracks aren't much better but their CW are! The recent Cadwell race for example! Huge crash and no reddie
If the way you are judging the relative merit of corner workers in different series is based on who throws less red flags you are grossly misinformed on track safety.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 09:57 PM
 
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nope... purely on responsible handling... BSB and CEV... there are at least two CW running to the accident scene in less than 10 seconds... I don't see it in AMA
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-07-2007, 10:28 PM
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but again, your comparing American cornerworkers to British cornerworkers, etc not AMA vs BSB

and its not even "American cornerworkers" your making the comparison to its Mid-Ohio cornerworkers

I've done trackdays at Barber where I've barely stopped sliding and there is one cornerworker making sure I'm okay and another one picking my bike up and in no time the crash truck has picked me up without stopping the session. Hell remember Mladin's crash at Barber? He was picked up, dusted off, and a CW bump started his bike without him hardly losing any time at all.

Unfotunately all tracks are not designed for the best corner worker positions and all corner workers are not trained the same (plus the whole being human thing)

the crash we're talking about took place in an area with hardly any runoff before a wall so the cornerworkers have to get somewhere safe which means time in getting to incidents. Blame the AMA all you want but they didn't design the track and Mid-O definitely wasn't designed FOR AMA. Most people at the track said that most crashes at Mid-O are cleaned up, the rider moved to safety and the bike picked up before anybody even knows there was a crash. Its just those few spots that cornerworkers can't easily get to and can't move the bike out of the impact zone that cause the red flags. Most of the AMA races I've been to had a lot of crashes that weren't shown on TV just because they weren't issues for the riders on track or weren't very big crashes. Most people don't want to miss racing to see 25th place rider lowside and walk away.

Its the same at quite a few tracks.
Miller for example is an awesome track, could be the best in the country but it takes the CWs forever to respond to an incident. Is it because AMA is a bunch of ass holes that don't care? no its because the place is so wide open the CWs have no natural barriers or safe spots, they have to be far enough away from the edge of the track that the crashing riders/bikes won't hit their corner station from any angle, which again means time responding to issues.

also, Mid-Ohio isn't the only track that uses the same corner workers for motorcycle races as they do car races. Is it possible that the reason British CWs are "better" is because they're actually all motorcycle CWs and fans of the sport? The tracks actually care about motorcycle racing over there, thats not gonna happen here until motorcycles in general are more popular (not just racing).
Europe has a much better motorcycle culture than we do so maybe thats part of why there CWs/tracks are more motorcycle friendly? most American tracks couldn't care less about motorcycles (VIR, Road Atlanta, Mid-O, fontucky and thats just off the top of my head) so why would they worry about training and hiring specifically motorcycle CWs. AMA has very little leverage at most tracks and even if they could control corner workers, most of the tracks that have those issues are the ones that are unsafe in the first place, so any resources are first devoted to moving walls back (or entire bridges)


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Last edited by airforce101t; 08-07-2007 at 10:32 PM.
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