Honda Success? - 600RR.net
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-13-2007, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
MotoGP NEWS Guru
 
sooperman12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,051
Images: 107
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Honda Success?

While Honda continues to pour over the RC212V and how it has completely underestimated its design focus as well as the competition's almost seamless adaptation to the new 800 class, Honda promises that it will have the next evolution of the 212 in Brno for testing.

But even so, other factories are gearing up some changes as well: Ducati will be testing a new fairing design to help it turn better and cope with windy conditions (at the request of championship leader, Casey Stoner). Yamaha will be bringing a new M1 engine, featuring pneumatic valves. This will make the already quick handling M1 a speed demon.

The "evolution" 212 will be available for testing by Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa, but a full-fledged, raceable bike will not be available to them until later in the season. Which begs the question, has Honda conceded defeat for 2008? It appears they have determined that the 2007 version of the RC212V is wrong on all fronts, having seen exhaust modifications, whole new chassis and fork modifications.

The gleaming redemption of this all has to be Honda's dominance on the World Circuit. James Toseland has taken the Ten Kate/Hannspree Fireblade to the top of the World Superbike standings, exerting a dominant double win performance at Brands Hatch, all but securing his second world championship. Meanwhile, Sofuoglu was crowned World Supersport champion with three rounds left on the new 600RR Ten Kate/Hannspree Supersport machine. But is it okay at Honda HRC HQ?

It is the premiere class that Honda relishes the most. It is where much of its HRC budget goes to, so much so, they have capped the engine supply for 2008, disallowing the Roberts team of fielding a two-man team. To add fuel to the fire, Toseland is leaving the Honda outfit in WSBK and heading to MotoGP, riding the enemy's bike -- Tech3 Yamaha, potentially on dominant rubber (read: Bridgestones).

This is just the world circuit. In AMA Superbike, Honda is chronically racing for third place, behind the Yoshimura Suzukis. The highlight though is AMA Formula Extreme, where Josh Hayes is riding dominant on the new 600RR as well. So, how can Honda get it right in so many places, but be so miserable at the top of the game (GP)? Can Honda get it back? Will it be with a rider like Pedrosa, when the "next Rossi" is already slated to be riding a Yamaha (read: Jorge Lorenzo)?

With the current trend, the future looks bleak for Big Red on the level of racing where it has been so successful in the past and the level that Honda prides itself on being so dominant. The upcoming Brno test will tell the tale of the Empire. Only time will tell, but as Hayden has said, "Honda don't get it wrong for long; they'll figure out how to get back on top." Adding on his return from holiday to Brno, "[Brno is] a track where horsepower is your friend with some big uphill sections and pretty long straights. So it will be exciting to see what HRC brings back to the party this weekend."

If it's true, let the party begin!

Bernard
NESBA #12I
CBR1000RR8 (street)
CBR600RR5 (track)



"Itīs not easier to ride, but I donīt need something easier, I need something faster."
- Nicky Hayden #69

Next Track Days (NESBA): September 10 - Summit (Main)
sooperman12 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-13-2007, 11:09 AM
World Superbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Princeton NJ, Ithaca NY (school)
Posts: 1,994
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well you can bet the new 212 is going to be a beast. Honda has the biggest shop, the most money to spend, and the best engineers. The other teams may have gotten lucky with the change to the 800's because it was new to everyone. But I'm willing to bet by next year the Honda is once again the best bike on the grid.

2007 CBR600RR
Jbreen1 is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
MXRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,216
Thanks: 70
Thanked 144 Times in 91 Posts
Feedback Score: 17 reviews
im more curious about when some one will dethrone the suzuki dynasty in AMA superbike. i hope honda makes a sick 1krr for 08. as for moto gp honda is really playing catch up. i dont know what can be done to save this season, probably nothing at this point. but honda will be doing some major revisions the the 212v and hopefully will get back on top. though i would bet its pedrosa's turn for the win after watching him this year.
MXRider is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-13-2007, 12:11 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Princeton NJ, Ithaca NY (school)
Posts: 1,994
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I don't think Honda is too concerned about AMA. The 08 1k is prolly going to be awesome just like the 07 600 but I think they mainly focus on Motogp and WSBK. But somebody DOES need to step up in AMA it's just way to old watching Suzuki go 1-2 every race.

2007 CBR600RR
Jbreen1 is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 07:19 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 591
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well American Honda is doing their own thing so while the powers that be at Honda are probably not pleased with the results American Honda is doing things their own way. Hopefully they'll be able to close the gap with the 08 1000RR.

As for Moto GP, I pretty much wrote off the season back around race 3 or so. I think the bike is almost there now but the tire situation kind of clouds things a bit. After Brno it will be interesting to see how things play out. Melandri will have the latest spec of equipment available to him, so if the Michelins never get back to being competitive, at least Melandri will be able to show what the bike can do.

Honda got it wrong with the RC212V but sometimes getting things wrong yields valuable lessons. I think the fact that they decided to design an all-new bike rather than evolve the old one was probably worth the effort.

As for Honda limiting the engine supply, thereby denying Team KR a second bike, I don't think that's what's really going. HRC is stretching itself a bit to supply 6 bikes + an engine deal and they simply cannot stretch any farther. And that's not taking into account HRC's commitments in production racing. To be honest I'd like to see Honda drop one team so Team KR can run two bikes. I think the relationship with Team KR will pay more dividends than supplying a team like LCR or Konica Minolta.
G.Irish is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 10:11 PM
Knee Dragger
 
avovoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 108
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Irish View Post
As for Honda limiting the engine supply, thereby denying Team KR a second bike, I don't think that's what's really going. HRC is stretching itself a bit to supply 6 bikes + an engine deal and they simply cannot stretch any farther. And that's not taking into account HRC's commitments in production racing. To be honest I'd like to see Honda drop one team so Team KR can run two bikes. I think the relationship with Team KR will pay more dividends than supplying a team like LCR or Konica Minolta.

I believe they are streching it a bit thin as well, but as far as KR paying off more divid ends i dont no about that. LCR and Konica have done better lately and they may have a greater appeal to a world audience not just an american one. PLus KR runs there own frame set up the only help honda can get back on there own oem equipment is the motor. They have that under control more then front end feel thats for sure.

2007 600RR Black with some more black

Hot bodies flush mounts
Kr Tuned CF S/O
Painted mid fairings
Pazzo shorty levers
Puig DS dbl bub windscreen
Stomp grip tank pads(clear)
Carbon tank pad
Carbon rear deck cover
OEM seat cowl
R & G tail Tidy
SME Front axle sliders and rear axle block sliders
Painted seat rails (flat black)
Blacked out bolts and pieces
avovoom is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 09:43 AM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 591
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by avovoom View Post
I believe they are streching it a bit thin as well, but as far as KR paying off more divid ends i dont no about that. LCR and Konica have done better lately and they may have a greater appeal to a world audience not just an american one. PLus KR runs there own frame set up the only help honda can get back on there own oem equipment is the motor. They have that under control more then front end feel thats for sure.
When I say the Team KR relationship can pay bigger dividends I'm thinking big picture.

For one, Team KR is looking to eventually build Honda-powered street bikes. The better they do in Moto GP the more successful they will be in building and selling street bikes. Having exotic Honda-powered motorcycles on the road is good for Honda (kind of like it would have been good for Honda had they accepted the request to power the McLaren F1...).

Secondly, Team KR builds their own chassis meaning they can take a different approach to the RC212V and explore a greater range of chassis ideas than a team leasing bikes can. Its not like Honda doesn't get enough data from the Repsol and Gresini bikes.

Thirdly I think that having an American team do well in GP will yield a lot more positive marketing value than having a one man satellite rider team doing okay. Even if Shinya was getting the odd podium on the Konica Minolta Honda I think it would be better if he were getting them on the Team KR bike.
G.Irish is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 01:35 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
jp182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 779
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
i have to agree. if KR sold a Honda powered street bike here in America, I would buy it.
jp182 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 600RR.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome