Article on the MotoGP Tire Rule: Update - 600RR.net
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Article on the MotoGP Tire Rule: Update

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In short, here's what might be on the table in Malaysia this week:

It now seems that after the proposal to put all MotoGP teams on the same tires had been formally made, Bridgestone and Michelin have both made big concessions:

1. First of all, Michelin has even reversed its long-held company policy of not bidding for single-tire rights, saying, that the company will bid whatever it takes to keep a foot in the motorsports door.

2. Bridgestone has agreed, in principal, on there being a larger number of tires (up from 31 to 40) used over the weekend and that the final selection of tires by each team would be made on Friday after the first session, not on Thursday as at present, before a wheel has been turned on the track.

3. Michelin has agreed not to press for the right to bring in overnight tires as was their practice prior to this season.

But the big question is whether Bridgestone has backed down from its position on limiting its services to the same number of riders currently supplied with Bridgestone tires. That limit of ten, and Bridgestone's refusal to supply the FIAT Yamaha team (currently Valentino Rossi and Colin Edwards) and the Repsol Honda team (Dani Pedrosa and Nicky Hayden) in 2008, are the issues that brought MotoGP to the brink of a single tire rule.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 12:35 PM
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as i have thought to myself before, it is stupid to pick the tires on thursday for use on sunday when the bikes haven't rolled into the track for testing, what if you picked none worked? blame it all on bad luck? this tire rule was stupid in the first place. picking tires even before you have ridden them on the track is a crapshoot, better hire a clairvoyant (psychic) who can see into the future & let them pick your tires.

i think they should do the final pick after the 2nd session of FP is over.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 09:45 PM
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business is business, and if bridgestone doesn't want yamaha and honda to use it tires, it should be their choice. I kinda like the rebellion and not giving more to the people who already have it mentality. its not like honda and yamaha wanted bridgestones before this season; i'd tell them to go screw themselves and then charge them a fortune and give them different tires.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 09:51 PM
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wow..that sux
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by skittzo View Post
business is business, and if bridgestone doesn't want yamaha and honda to use it tires, it should be their choice. I kinda like the rebellion and not giving more to the people who already have it mentality. its not like honda and yamaha wanted bridgestones before this season; i'd tell them to go screw themselves and then charge them a fortune and give them different tires.
Denying Honda and Yamaha is what prompted the whole threat of the spec tire in the first place. Bridgestone should have heeded the lesson of the spec tire in WSBK. WSBK used to have an open tire until Michelin refused to supply any team but Xerox Ducati. In light of this, WSBK went to a spec tire. The lesson is that any time a tire company that is dominating refuses to sell the tire to those who desire it and can pay for it, they are acting against the best interests of the sport. And given those circumstances they are creating a situation that can bring about a spec tire rule.

Tire companies need to realize that they are not the main event. People don't come to races to see tires, they don't come to cheer for tires, and they really don't give a damn whose tires are on the bikes (or cars for that matter). So if you, as a tire company, start causing problems with what people pay to see (riders and bikes), then you are asking for sanctioning bodies to get rid of you.

Play hard, but play fair and you might be able to stick around and enjoy the competition and the marketing benefits of winning. Play too hard with the politics and you can f it up for everybody.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by G.Irish View Post
Denying Honda and Yamaha is what prompted the whole threat of the spec tire in the first place. Bridgestone should have heeded the lesson of the spec tire in WSBK. WSBK used to have an open tire until Michelin refused to supply any team but Xerox Ducati. In light of this, WSBK went to a spec tire. The lesson is that any time a tire company that is dominating refuses to sell the tire to those who desire it and can pay for it, they are acting against the best interests of the sport. And given those circumstances they are creating a situation that can bring about a spec tire rule.

Tire companies need to realize that they are not the main event. People don't come to races to see tires, they don't come to cheer for tires, and they really don't give a damn whose tires are on the bikes (or cars for that matter). So if you, as a tire company, start causing problems with what people pay to see (riders and bikes), then you are asking for sanctioning bodies to get rid of you.

Play hard, but play fair and you might be able to stick around and enjoy the competition and the marketing benefits of winning. Play too hard with the politics and you can f it up for everybody.
Absolutely agree with GIrish here. Excellent post.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Irish View Post
Denying Honda and Yamaha is what prompted the whole threat of the spec tire in the first place. Bridgestone should have heeded the lesson of the spec tire in WSBK. WSBK used to have an open tire until Michelin refused to supply any team but Xerox Ducati. In light of this, WSBK went to a spec tire. The lesson is that any time a tire company that is dominating refuses to sell the tire to those who desire it and can pay for it, they are acting against the best interests of the sport. And given those circumstances they are creating a situation that can bring about a spec tire rule.

Tire companies need to realize that they are not the main event. People don't come to races to see tires, they don't come to cheer for tires, and they really don't give a damn whose tires are on the bikes (or cars for that matter). So if you, as a tire company, start causing problems with what people pay to see (riders and bikes), then you are asking for sanctioning bodies to get rid of you.

Play hard, but play fair and you might be able to stick around and enjoy the competition and the marketing benefits of winning. Play too hard with the politics and you can f it up for everybody.
Agree, but in this case, the tire manufacturer that would be "kicked out" isn't the one withholding tires. In WSBK, Michelin was withholding tires, so they got kicked out and now Pirelli runs the show. In the case of MotoGP, if Bridgestone withholds their tires from the FIAT and Repsol teams, it's BRIDGESTONE that becomes the spec-tire and MICHELIN gets the boot because Michelin doesn't want to run without Rossi, Dani, Hayden at the helm.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sooperman12 View Post
Agree, but in this case, the tire manufacturer that would be "kicked out" isn't the one withholding tires. In WSBK, Michelin was withholding tires, so they got kicked out and now Pirelli runs the show. In the case of MotoGP, if Bridgestone withholds their tires from the FIAT and Repsol teams, it's BRIDGESTONE that becomes the spec-tire and MICHELIN gets the boot because Michelin doesn't want to run without Rossi, Dani, Hayden at the helm.
Michelin would be free to bid to become the spec tire manufacturer so its not necessarily a given that Bridgestone would become the supplier. And really, if Michelin didn't announce that they would probably leave Moto GP if they didn't have any factory teams to supply, Bridgestone might not have turned down both Honda and Yamaha. I think it was a bit chickenshit of Michelin to make that threat. Bottom line is if you produced a good enough tire factory teams would choose you. If you don't, and you're left with only satellite teams then you need to work hard to convince factory times that you have the better tire again.

So really everyone shares a little bit of blame in this situation. For their part the Bridgestone and Michelin shaped up and made some concessions and that's why it seems like Dorna is backing down on the control tyre.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 09:53 AM
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I think that the single tire rule stinks! The more companies are involved more new compounds will arrive leaving us with the choice! If Michelin becomes MotoGP's only tire manufacturer this means that Bridgestone and Dunlop will stagnate with the tire technology thus Michelin will have a monopoly over the market!

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 10:00 AM
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I think that the single tire rule stinks! The more companies are involved more new compounds will arrive leaving us with the choice! If Michelin becomes MotoGP's only tire manufacturer this means that Bridgestone and Dunlop will stagnate with the tire technology thus Michelin will have a monopoly over the market!
While I appreciate and understand your distaste for a single tire rule (which is no longer on the table), MotoGP should be about the riders and the machines. Not about the tires.

Dunlop already has a proven racing pedigree in other racing venues. Bridgestone and Michelin are doing their best to excel in all their tire ventures.

I personally feel that Michelin got caught sleeping this year, and their lack of professionalism lead to their embarassment for 2007. I would say they have something to learn from Bridgestone this year, as Bridgestone has done an excellent job of preparing and supplying appropriate tires for their teams.

Michelin on the other hand can't seem to get it right without trying out all their tires. More like a crapshoot.

Anyways...I hope the new tire rule with the first day "allowance" will level the tire field next season. Less emphasis on tires, more emphasis on riders and their bikes.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by olio View Post
I think that the single tire rule stinks! The more companies are involved more new compounds will arrive leaving us with the choice! If Michelin becomes MotoGP's only tire manufacturer this means that Bridgestone and Dunlop will stagnate with the tire technology thus Michelin will have a monopoly over the market!
I don't think so. When the Moto GP/GP500 was all-Michelin for all those years tire technology didn't stand still. Sure, motorsport competition pushes the companies farther and faster than they would go on their own but its not the only way they advance.

I like to see tire technology advance as much as the next guy but I don't think its worth seeing a tire war ruin the racing in Moto GP.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BoredTiger View Post
While I appreciate and understand your distaste for a single tire rule (which is no longer on the table), MotoGP should be about the riders and the machines. Not about the tires.

Dunlop already has a proven racing pedigree in other racing venues. Bridgestone and Michelin are doing their best to excel in all their tire ventures.

I personally feel that Michelin got caught sleeping this year, and their lack of professionalism lead to their embarassment for 2007. I would say they have something to learn from Bridgestone this year, as Bridgestone has done an excellent job of preparing and supplying appropriate tires for their teams.

Michelin on the other hand can't seem to get it right without trying out all their tires. More like a crapshoot.

Anyways...I hope the new tire rule with the first day "allowance" will level the tire field next season. Less emphasis on tires, more emphasis on riders and their bikes.
Good point bro! Agreed! :icon_lol:

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-19-2007, 05:19 PM
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Denying Honda and Yamaha is what prompted the whole threat of the spec tire in the first place. Bridgestone should have heeded the lesson of the spec tire in WSBK. WSBK used to have an open tire until Michelin refused to supply any team but Xerox Ducati. In light of this, WSBK went to a spec tire. The lesson is that any time a tire company that is dominating refuses to sell the tire to those who desire it and can pay for it, they are acting against the best interests of the sport. And given those circumstances they are creating a situation that can bring about a spec tire rule.
The tires companies aren't providing a service. They're not just happy to be there and we have no interest in promoting our own products. they are there to make money. just like every other participant in every other professional motorsport in the world. and you only f it up if you're the one on the outside looking in. Which at this point, there is no way bridgestone is going to be evicted from motogp. they have the championship, all the momentum and a french scalp nailed to the wall. they have michelins factory teams asking them for to supply. they hold all the cards and have all the power because they earned it. Michelin's pullout threat was chickenshit; if Bridgestone had really wanted to be the only tire, they could've taken up yamaha and honda and FORCED michelin out. Michelin should be thanking bridgestone for not making the power play and leaving them their cookies.

Quote:
Bottom line is if you produced a good enough tire factory teams would choose you. If you don't, and you're left with only satellite teams then you need to work hard to convince factory times that you have the better tire again.
I agree with you: MotoGP shouldn't be about the tires, but I have no sympathy for michelin whatsoever. they got their asses kicked in a straight up even fight. they should quit complaining about the rules and go back to the r&d lab. as should every other entity who got smacked by ducati and stoner this season.

Spec tires are bad idea. Michelin's overnite specials are worse, i don't care what the racing looked liked. how about we let everyone who can't win change the rules?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-20-2007, 03:44 AM
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Ugh, gotta wait another week for the final decision :p

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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and now for input from Jeremy Burgess (from soup):

Quote:
Jerry Burgess has always maintained he doesn't want to change tyres, his view is that you work with your technical partners to solve your problems and by doing so get stronger as a team.
Finally someone who isn't looking for an easy way out. the consummate engineer.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 12:10 AM
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i thought the spec tire rule would be good, but letting the teams choose their tires AFTER FP1 is even better.
this would allow for both BStone and Michelin to supply their BEST tires as tested on the track by individual teams.

I think this will be the best choice.

and JB is only saying that cuz he's a genius.

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-22-2007, 04:35 AM
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it's nice to see everyone recognize and appreciate such a professional as Burgess!

I'm surprised people are still talking about switching tires (e.g. Pedrosa, Rossi, etc.).

I felt that they would try and figure things out, instead of dumping the tires all together, if things didn't go to the spec tire route.


Can't wait to see the final decision on Wednesday. More tires and the opportunity to actually TEST tires before selecting will be great!

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