Repsol Honda Sticks with the Conventional - 600RR.net
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Repsol Honda Sticks with the Conventional

From MotoGP:

Although the Repsol Honda duo of Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa had been alternating between the conventional and pneumatic valve version of the RC212V engine during preseason, the MotoGP Official Test in Jerez saw the factory team pair focus exclusively on the former. Their NEW Team Manager, Kazuhika Yamano, explained the decision after the test, noting that for the immediate future, the standard version would be seeing the lion's share of development.

"Basically, at Repsol Honda, we have two types of engine. We can't compete in a race with just the engine; you have to bear in mind the total performance of aspects such as the chassis and tyre combinations," said the Japanese boss.

"At the moment, we think that the standard engine has better total performance, so that's what we will be using for races."

"Nicky did more laps in every session; one of the goals set at the start of the preseason was to ride enough to understand the bike and improve the competitiveness. He completed the three day test program, and I believe that we took away both a good result and valuable information for the opening race of the season."

"Dani has only just recovered from injury, so his goal was to know his current riding level and find out if he could do enough laps. His hand hurts, but he gave us enough feedback for us to know what direction to take development," concluded Yamano.

------------------------------------

First of all, when did Yamano come on board? I thought it was Horiike-san? I mean the bikes didn't become competitive until Horiike took over the program mid-way through last year.

What happened to Honda telling everyone they had some surprise for Jerez with the motor? I thought it was to unveil a beast motor, but don't tell me it's just running the standard engine. Please tell me that there's a beast motor waiting in Qatar and this is just a smoke job to surprise the competition.

And what "direction to take development" did Dani provide? The direction to take development where Nicky is going I hope? Dani didn't even go to the Honda Racing event in Tokyo, where all of HRC's riders/drivers are represented. This guy is like the antithesis of a company man.

Discuss...

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 09:24 AM
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If Dani doesn't win every race w/this motor he will instantly blame Nicky for his inability to "develop" a bike.

I just hope Lorenzo does a boneheaded move and takes out Rossi and Dani and leaves the three cry babies on the sidelines for the season.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 10:40 AM
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Well, here is a little of what I read at superbike planet. It sounds like they will be running a new motor at the start of the season, but who knows at this point. This is Nicky Hayden being interviewed..

"Q.What are your feelings about the 2008 motorcycle/tire package? What are the strong points of the new bike?
Nicky Hayden: I think that the big advantage of the new bike is the extra rpm. On the track the extra grunt on top is nice, it just keeps on pulling. But at the moment, the power is too peaky, so the engine specialists at HRC have got some work to do before the season opener. Extra speed doesn't always mean better lap times, but in race situations, it's a big edge for overtaking other riders. Everybody is working hard, and Honda is hungry to get the title back. Racing the first race of the year under lights is going to be very cool for the riders, fans and everybody involved. I'm really looking forward to that.
Q. Can you tell us about your first 2008 test sessions? How is engine development going?
NH: I like what I have seen so far, and we are working on the development of the engine. I hope by the time we line up in Qatar that they will have that new boy ready. I am excited to see what Honda will produce for us.
Q. You are working on development of the pneumatic-valve engine. Do you think it will be ready for the first race?
NH: I'm not sure that it will be perfect by the first race, but I think Honda will produce us a real weapon and that it will be ready. Qatar has a long home straight, and you need a good engine with plenty of ponies."


Link to the article.. Touches on tires too..

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Feb/080221-69.htm
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sooperman12 View Post
From MotoGP:

Although the Repsol Honda duo of Nicky Hayden and Dani Pedrosa had been alternating between the conventional and pneumatic valve version of the RC212V engine during preseason, the MotoGP Official Test in Jerez saw the factory team pair focus exclusively on the former. Their NEW Team Manager, Kazuhika Yamano, explained the decision after the test, noting that for the immediate future, the standard version would be seeing the lion's share of development.

"Basically, at Repsol Honda, we have two types of engine. We can't compete in a race with just the engine; you have to bear in mind the total performance of aspects such as the chassis and tyre combinations," said the Japanese boss.

"At the moment, we think that the standard engine has better total performance, so that's what we will be using for races."

"Nicky did more laps in every session; one of the goals set at the start of the preseason was to ride enough to understand the bike and improve the competitiveness. He completed the three day test program, and I believe that we took away both a good result and valuable information for the opening race of the season."

"Dani has only just recovered from injury, so his goal was to know his current riding level and find out if he could do enough laps. His hand hurts, but he gave us enough feedback for us to know what direction to take development," concluded Yamano.

------------------------------------

First of all, when did Yamano come on board? I thought it was Horiike-san? I mean the bikes didn't become competitive until Horiike took over the program mid-way through last year.
Horiike-san got shifted out of HRC sometime midseason or a little bit afterwards. I don't know if it was part of the normal rotation at HRC or if he was pushed out because of the poor performance of the RC212V. The president of HRC also got replaced last year. Either way, Horiike was the Managing Director, Makoto Tanaka was the Team Manager. So that's three higher ups at HRC that were replaced last season.

Quote:
And what "direction to take development" did Dani provide? The direction to take development where Nicky is going I hope? Dani didn't even go to the Honda Racing event in Tokyo, where all of HRC's riders/drivers are represented. This guy is like the antithesis of a company man.

Discuss...
Not being the PR type might be ok if Dani wins races and conducts himself professionally otherwise. But I'm beginning to wonder if he's just difficult and ornery in general to work with.

I think Dani is heading down the path to the dark side with the Roman Emperor. Its one thing to criticize your teammate, its another to blame a crash on HRC:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65267

He needs to get his mind right, otherwise he might find himself looking for employment elsewhere. Of course, I'm sure he could get a ride at Kawasaki or Suzuki but that would certainly be a step down for him.

Last edited by G.Irish; 02-26-2008 at 01:18 PM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 03:05 PM
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Dani's just an angry little tiny man.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 04:40 PM
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Hopefully Honda can get the pneumatic engine straighten out by atleast mid-season. They will be the only factory team running a conventional spring valve engine.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mad RR View Post
Hopefully Honda can get the pneumatic engine straighten out by atleast mid-season. They will be the only factory team running a conventional spring valve engine.
What is the pneumatic engine all about? Is it going to be better performance for Honda as well? Just wondering.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by orientexpress11 View Post
I just hope Lorenzo does a boneheaded move and takes out Rossi and Dani and leaves the three cry babies on the sidelines for the season.
+1 on that! He's been looking very good on the bike so far this test season lets hope he can get that speed to the races.. :icon_lol:

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2008, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gixxxerryda View Post
What is the pneumatic engine all about? Is it going to be better performance for Honda as well? Just wondering.
What I'm talking about when I say pneumatic engine is the use of pneumatic valves in the engine. Pneumatic valves use pressurised nitrogen to open and close them rather than conventional valve springs. Pneumatic valves can get you an extra 1,000-1,500 rpms, because they can open and close faster. Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki factory teams are using pneumatic valves and Ducati is using their tradtional desmodromic valve system. So to answer your question this would mean better engine performance for Honda when they get the new engine up to par :01_thumbu

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 12:06 PM
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don't believe everything you read, HRC is probably spreading mis-information regarding the true status of it's pneumatic valved engine, they want the competition to think HRC is behind the engine war to make them drop their guard.

you know what would be really surprising? HRC building a desmo valved engine of their own & kick Ducati's butt in the straights.


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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
If Dani doesn't win every race w/this motor he will instantly blame Nicky for his inability to "develop" a bike.
Quote:
I think Dani is heading down the path to the dark side with the Roman Emperor. Its one thing to criticize your teammate, its another to blame a crash on HRC
+1
The roman emperor was a great rider too but his head was all over the place. Dani blaming crashes on HRC and saying Nicky can't develop is just his frustration. I think he was expected to be rossi's heir-apparent. First his teammate wins the championship then his 250cc rival has a season for the ages. Maybe Stoner will be the Rossi to Dani's Biaggi.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Well the truth of the pneumatic valved engine, I heard in a quote from Nicky, is that its power is peaky. In other words, it's not short on top end, it just doesn't have the grunt out of the corner that the conventional engine has right now. So, while they may be fast down the straight, as Nicky said, that doesn't always win races. He said it would be nice to have for the Qatar straight, but it wouldn't win the race because it's so peaky it wouldn't be useful anywhere else. That being said, I don't trust Honda further than I can throw 'em. My bet is they have something by IRTA in Qatar or something for the start of the season. Honda ain't going to allow another crushing defeat at the hands of a grassroots, family organization like Ducati.

P.S. I liked the Biaggi=Dani reference.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 03:32 PM
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I was just comparing Biaggi to Pedrosa this weekend during the WSBK race... they seem awfully similar.

Great riders, knowledgeable, etc etc etc... total douchebags.

The thing I like about Max is is he one of few riders who started late. His first time riding was when he was 17 or something... I'm not capable of finding any silver lining in Pedrosa. =)

I'm eager to see what they do about the engine in the coming season, and I REALLY hope Hayden does well. I can't imagine them throwing out so much development.

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-26-2008, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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I was just comparing Biaggi to Pedrosa this weekend during the WSBK race... they seem awfully similar.

Great riders, knowledgeable, etc etc etc... total douchebags.

The thing I like about Max is is he one of few riders who started late. His first time riding was when he was 17 or something... I'm not capable of finding any silver lining in Pedrosa. =)

I'm eager to see what they do about the engine in the coming season, and I REALLY hope Hayden does well. I can't imagine them throwing out so much development.

Recall however that much of the development happened on the standard engine. Much of tire development also happened on the standard engine. So they won't be throwing out any data. And all the data they've collected certainly will help make the pneumatic as strong if not stronger than the standard.

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