Headers vs. Mjs cat delete - 600RR.net
07-13 RR Modifications Modifications to the '07- to 013 600RR

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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-04-2016, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Headers vs. Mjs cat delete

So I need some clarification between a full exhaust and just cutting my OEM headers and adding the Mjs midpipe. So from what I've read, if I were to add headers I would see an increase in top end power (slightly) however I will loose a small amount of low to midrange power. Is this correct? I've also heard that the exhaust valve helps produce a little bit extra low end power. Is this also correct? I'm not really looking to add any top end power but if I can get a little bit more low to midrange power that would make me happy. That being the case, would the Mjs cat delete mid pipe yield best torque results? That way I can keep the exhaust flapper but get rid of the huge tumor (Cat) that my bike has lol or if there is another combination exhaust wise let me know. Additionally this would be paired with a pcv and a tune in time. Before anyone says anything about sprockets to increase low end power I know about changing them to "gain" low end power.


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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 12:03 AM
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i went with the mjs because of price honestly. i know you save a little more weight going full headers but i kept reading that they dont flow to much better than the stock ones. you can still gut the flap if you want and have a tuner fix the lower end. but yes it looks way better now haha
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 01:13 AM
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There's not a lot of difference between the two. A good example for comparison was my bike & Buckley.S. I had the MJS cat delete with slip on & PCV, Steve at the time had a LV slip on, arrow headers & PCV. Both bikes were custom mapped on the same dyno by the same technician. Power and torque figures were pretty much the same.


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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 02:09 AM
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Dkid's is soooo much smoother tho :)

Same peak but smoother curve while

While Buckley's has that little dip around 10krpm
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 07:26 AM
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If you want low end neither are a good choice, leave it stock. The 09+ bikes had a much punchier low/mid range that made it (in my opinion) a better streetbikes than the 07/08 powerband. How low end are you talking, below 5,000rom?

Free flowing headers are good for top end power but at the expense of low end "grunt". Think of it this way: you have a pot with X amount of "power" marbles available you need to spread out in a line, that is your powerband. Thing is if you want to put more marbles on the top end you need to take them from somewhere else, where FI you grab them from? The low end.

I had an 01 CBR929RR that is still one if my favorite bikes of all time back in 02-04. At the time I bought what was the hot ticket exhaust, the Micron Serpent system, installed it, had it dyno tuned and hated it immediately even though it was a ~10hp increase in the top end. There was NOTHING below 5,000 rpm which made street riding frustrating to the point I pulled and went back to stock headers. MUCH better powerband. MUCH better bike experience.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 08:36 AM
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replacing or modifying the stock header to remove the flapper will do exactly the opposite of what you want. if you want low to mid i'd leave it
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
If you want low end neither are a good choice, leave it stock. The 09+ bikes had a much punchier low/mid range that made it (in my opinion) a better streetbikes than the 07/08 powerband. How low end are you talking, below 5,000rom?

Free flowing headers are good for top end power but at the expense of low end "grunt". Think of it this way: you have a pot with X amount of "power" marbles available you need to spread out in a line, that is your powerband. Thing is if you want to put more marbles on the top end you need to take them from somewhere else, where FI you grab them from? The low end.

I had an 01 CBR929RR that is still one if my favorite bikes of all time back in 02-04. At the time I bought what was the hot ticket exhaust, the Micron Serpent system, installed it, had it dyno tuned and hated it immediately even though it was a ~10hp increase in the top end. There was NOTHING below 5,000 rpm which made street riding frustrating to the point I pulled and went back to stock headers. MUCH better powerband. MUCH better bike experience.

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Just how much more "punchier" is the 09+ 600rr's?


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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your help guys and clearing up my questions. I think Ima just leave the tumor on the bike ha. Sounds like I'll just loose low end power and that's not what I want.


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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 08:50 AM
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Headers vs. Mjs cat delete

Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaRR View Post
Thanks for all your help guys and clearing up my questions. I think Ima just leave the tumor on the bike ha. Sounds like I'll just loose low end power and that's not what I want.


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Honestly I didn't notice any drop in low end using the MJS cat delete. Remember, retaining the stock headers also means retaining the servo valve which will remain operational. This, together with the fact you aren't increasing the diameter of the headers means that the low end won't suffer horrifically.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkid View Post
Honestly I didn't notice any drop in low end using the MJS cat delete. Remember, retaining the stock headers also means retaining the servo valve which will remain operational. This, together with the fact you aren't increasing the diameter of the headers means that the low end won't suffer horrifically.

Thanks Dkid. I've got some thinking to do now lol basically weather or not to do the cat delete.


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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 11:08 AM
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I always wanted the delete just for cosmetics lol

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-05-2016, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaRR View Post
That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Just how much more "punchier" is the 09+ 600rr's?


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I rode about 200 miles in Vegas on a rental blue 07 before I bought my 11. To me it was noticeable. Was it huge? No, but the power band on the 07/08 was more "linear" by pulling harder as the revs increased to a huge peak where the 09+ pull bumped at 4K or so, tapered very slightly around 7K and started pulling more linear from there up to 13K where it tapered off.

It's subtle but there; enough I didn't install the 08 ECU I had bought to put in my bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkid View Post
Honestly I didn't notice any drop in low end using the MJS cat delete. Remember, retaining the stock headers also means retaining the servo valve which will remain operational. This, together with the fact you aren't increasing the diameter of the headers means that the low end won't suffer horrifically.
That doesn't surprise me based on the power band of the 07/08 because there is not much low/mid to begin with. I think on an 09+ you might notice it more; I know on the larger bikes (929/954/1000RR) it was enough to be very annoying in my experience.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 01:37 AM
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I have the mjs pipe on mine. Honestly I never noticed a difference in torque at low rpms. All I know is I decreased some restriction in the exhaust which is somewhat beneficial whether it be gaining more top end and losing low end. But like I said, I didn't notice any difference. Regardless, it did shave some hefty pounds off the bike :)
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 02:28 PM
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I have a Dan Moto Carbon GP exhaust + MJS Perf. mid-pipe/cate delete and I certainly feel like I did gain a SMALL bit of low end torque. Maybe its just my imagination though. Bike certainly sounds better (and louder). Less restriction - I'll take it! I have yet to get a Power Commander and get the bike tuned -- so far doesnt seem to be running lean or rich (doesnt backfire at all) but I will need to look into it.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016, 12:11 AM
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my opinion, just run a slip on.
if you want to run a full exhaust and currently have all stock exhaust, get a full yosh - best bang for the buck IMO
if you have a slip on and want full exhaust get arrow or MJS headers to get rid of the servo and the cat.

i have a akra slip on and wanted to get rid of the cat and servo so i got the arrow headers, amazing setup but ever since i got the slip on i wished i had gotten a full yosh.
thought about selling the akra slip on, even had it up for sale but it just wasnt worth it at that point. was cheaper to keep it and get the arrows.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016, 12:58 AM
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Wouldn't just changing the gearing to -1 in the front yield better down-low power by moving the ratios.

I run -1/+2 and have a lot more torque/acceleration due to change.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Juzman View Post
Wouldn't just changing the gearing to -1 in the front yield better down-low power by moving the ratios.

I run -1/+2 and have a lot more torque/acceleration due to change.

Ya I could do that. But I do take it on the highway occasionally and don't want to be higher in the rpm's then I already am. I guess I could just do either a -1 in the front or just a +1 in the rear. Surly that won't jump my rpm's too much but still give me a little more acceleration.


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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016, 04:33 PM
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just get the mjs and call it a day
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2016, 09:54 PM
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I run -1/+2 and do about 30 minutes highway, and no issues. Sits about 7k on the tacho.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 02:30 AM
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Can i run the mjs and slip on without a tune safely? Also does the exhaust note get any deeper and burbly?
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 02:01 AM
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Can i run the mjs and slip on without a tune safely? Also does the exhaust note get any deeper and burbly?
Yeah you can run it safely but it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a tune. Removing the cat and putting the mjs on will def make it louder. That's what I have on mine and it's pretty darn loud
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 06:06 AM
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Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by jawsolsen333 View Post
Yeah you can run it safely but it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a tune. Removing the cat and putting the mjs on will def make it louder. That's what I have on mine and it's pretty darn loud
When removing the cat and pairing the headers with a MJS cat-delete pipe and a slip-on you are converting it into a "fully open" exhaust. Will this affect how the bike perform and how the engine runs? Yes.

Will you see the full benefit from a doing this mod without having a tune? Most likely not.

Most people get a tune or a fuel controller (Power Commander, Bazzaz or similar) to account for this. You could risk running too lean mixture which is not good for your engine, nor fully utilize the potential of the modification.

When doing this mod I would also recommend to install block-off plates to reduce the popping on deceleration.

I have the MJS cat -delete pipe and a Akrapovic slip-on on my bike and it didn't make the bike much louder, but I guess i depends a bit on which slip-on you have.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 09:26 AM
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That’s actually what I want, make it louder and popping on decel, just not at the cost of my engine. Wanna make sure it’s safe without the tune. I just don’t want to spend 300-500 on a power commander, I’d rather spend that on new tires.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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That’s actually what I want, make it louder and popping on decel, just not at the cost of my engine. Wanna make sure it’s safe without the tune. I just don’t want to spend 300-500 on a power commander, I’d rather spend that on new tires.
If a decision on what part to buy is between new tires and a pipe to make the bike louder, i.e. not something actually needed, choose the tires first.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 01:45 PM
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I don't have any issues with cost.. so I went with a full system .. Costs me a grip but the smile that it puts on my face whenever I twist that hrc throttle tube and hear that beautiful sounding full ARATA exhaust.. priceless.. I'd say whatever makes you happy just get it cuz in the end you will be the one paying for whatever it is.. Oh and yeah, you will need a pcv or bazzaz or something for that MJS pipe or full system or else you'll lean out.







Last edited by Specialized2010; 12-19-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 03:54 PM
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the HESV servo valve is for noise emission purposes only its a DB noise reducer, it only fully opens between 6000k and 9000k RPM you can tell when you have a slip on installed and your mufflers loudest point is between 6k and 9k rpm. this valve mostly closes at high rpm to keep the DB's down but it hurts the power and causes vibrations. alot of people say the 07-08 cbrs had more power stock and the reason is after 2008 the servo valve and cats were installed hindering the HP and adding more weight. removing this valve reduces vibration and increases flow. back when i first got my bike this was the first thing i did tied the valve open and removed servo motor and added a servo buddy the bike ran smoother and night and day difference with mid rang and top end. four stroke engines operate better the faster you can get air/fuel in and exhaust out. Again the HESV servo valve has nothing to do with back pressure what do people think its a 2 stroke lol.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 04:01 PM
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if you were to do a cat delete and servo delete basically making your stock headers with no restrictions youll see the same power results on a dyno, the main benefit of aftermarket headers for example mine i used arrow racing titanium headers is weight reduction. my stock headers vs my arrow racing was a huge difference. the aftermarkets have slightly wider piping but that make no difference unless you have internal engine work. remember weight to HP ratio is amazing alot of people dont realize how much faster you can be by droping 40LBS off the bike.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscook5636 View Post
the HESV servo valve is for noise emission purposes only its a DB noise reducer, it only fully opens between 6000k and 9000k RPM you can tell when you have a slip on installed and your mufflers loudest point is between 6k and 9k rpm. this valve mostly closes at high rpm to keep the DB's down but it hurts the power and causes vibrations. alot of people say the 07-08 cbrs had more power stock and the reason is after 2008 the servo valve and cats were installed hindering the HP and adding more weight. removing this valve reduces vibration and increases flow. back when i first got my bike this was the first thing i did tied the valve open and removed servo motor and added a servo buddy the bike ran smoother and night and day difference with mid rang and top end. four stroke engines operate better the faster you can get air/fuel in and exhaust out. Again the HESV servo valve has nothing to do with back pressure what do people think its a 2 stroke lol.
Um 2007 CBR fiche.

Servo motor:

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts...5636#sch420813

Headers. You can clearly see the cat:

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts...5636#sch419520

I think your understanding of the 07/08 vs the 09+ is incorrect.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 06:02 PM
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Lol this guy....
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 10:40 PM
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Correct my comment about the servo is correct I miss typed the years I was referring to meaning older bikes the 2008 only had ecm program differences like fuel and timing giving the increase in HP I was referring to older models not 08-16 my bad on the miss information. But the servo information is correct.

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