Bad poor acceleration / Upper Fuel Rail wont Spray - 600RR.net
New Members New members MUST post in this section to introduce themselves to the RR family of ours. Failure to do so will prohibit posting in other forums.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Bad poor acceleration / Upper Fuel Rail wont Spray

Hello my dear CBR owners . I'm from FRANCE . my Honda CBR600 RR 2009 ABS started getting weird when I start it in the morning it won't until you push some gaz then when I accelerate the RPM starts jumping between 4k and 5k you feel like its poor fuel reaching there and also the RPM won't get RED LINE ZONE its like the bike is limited . I saw many owners suffering from the same situation and some of them told me its the TPS sensor so I changed it with another one (used ) I couldnt find a new one but the problem still there. Another old professional mechanical told me its the ECU I must change it with an American ECU because mine is European ECU . please my friends any suggestions. Besides I'm suffering from this issue from 2018 . and suddenly I found this Honda's forum I hope you can give me some help .thank you all.
Balou900 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 02:02 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: shithole o' Nor Cal
Posts: 4,591
Thanks: 953
Thanked 627 Times in 584 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
2009 non ABS owner here....need more history on bike...

Try some injector cleaner, go to open roads, and open throttle a bunch of times?

Miles/KM's?

maintenance history?

Used daily?

Condition of interior of gas tank?

Never have heard OTF that TPS is/has a problem.....

American/EU ecu is same- same, IIRC..... if anything you'd want an ecu from 07-08 but you've got to mod the plug and move a single wire from one slot to another to make 07/8- ECU work for 09...

Bon chance!

Last edited by tary preisser; 04-21-2019 at 03:29 PM.
tary preisser is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
2009 non ABS owner here....need more history on bike...

Try some injector cleaner, go to open roads, and open throttle a bunch of times?

Miles/KM's?

maintenance history?

Used daily?

Condition of interior of gas tank?

Never have heard OTF that TPS is/has a problem.....

American/EU ecu is same- same, IIRC..... if anything you'd want an ecu from 07-08 but you've got to mod the plug and move a single wire from one slot to another to make 07/8- ECU work for 09...

Bon chance!
My dear friend Tary preisser . dont worry everything was checked from A to Z all maintenance is made properly the bike milage is 50.000km. New Iridium spark plugs. New oil 10w40 liqui Moly .new air filter. New oil filter. ...
Today I tried to check and read my DTC the MIL blinking light
I started by clearing my DTC from all faulty codes and the self-diagnostic memory is erased after that I started my engine to check the new faulty code and the MIL light started showing me this blinks ( 5 long blinks and 6 short blinks)
I couldn't find what this code means !!!!!??
Please my friend Tary preisser I really need your help.
Thank you.
Balou900 is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 09:54 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: shithole o' Nor Cal
Posts: 4,591
Thanks: 953
Thanked 627 Times in 584 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Looking at pg 6-18 (DTC index).

there's no DTC code 5L-6S noted in 09 manual.

try again?, sometimes blinks are difficult to suss out, i've needed to repeat this several times to get right count.
most injector faults shown in the dtc index result in "fail to start" condition.....
tary preisser is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 10:30 PM
BOTY 2014 Winner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,441
Thanks: 13
Thanked 998 Times in 818 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
if there is an active fuel injector fault, the fuel pump won't prime.
wibbly is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to wibbly For This Useful Post:
tary preisser (04-24-2019)
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:44 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: shithole o' Nor Cal
Posts: 4,591
Thanks: 953
Thanked 627 Times in 584 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
OP, wibbly has responded, be diligent in working through the advice he offers.

It's gold, and has always been spot on......

However, it seems like you should take a lantern(flashlight) and check interior of gas tank.

interior of tank should be completely free of corrosion...?

what gear/speed does the bike not reach redline? (details help)

at 4-5 k rpm the 2ndary (upper) fuel rail is not active, and in 1st gear, the bike is hypersensitive to throttle inputs.

I've had times when the bike surges a few hundred rpm's with the steadiest throttle I could maintain in 1st gear at 4-6k rpm.

These bikes aren't meant to be silky smooth and steady at lower rpms, theyre meant to be ridden hard in upper 1/2 of rpm range.

This doesn't explain why the bike won't hit redline in lower gears...what is behavior as it gets to high rpms and then fails to reach redline?
tary preisser is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 11:47 PM
BOTY 2014 Winner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,441
Thanks: 13
Thanked 998 Times in 818 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
don't give me too much credit.

if there are active codes, you need to figure those out first. you may be misinterpreting them.



i'm not entirely certain that one can "bench test" so to speak the secondary injectors. i think many expect them to be operating when it is normal behavior for them not to be.



if the bike doesn't pull hard up top, first check is fuel pressure and flow. simple enough.
wibbly is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
Looking at pg 6-18 (DTC index).

there's no DTC code 5L-6S noted in 09 manual.

try again?, sometimes blinks are difficult to suss out, i've needed to repeat this several times to get right count.
most injector faults shown in the dtc index result in "fail to start" condition.....
OK my friend I will try again thank you thank you for answering me even me i couldnt find those codes. I will try to upload a video about this issue .thank you Tary preisser for this kind help.I will tell you if there is any new about it
Balou900 is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
don't give me too much credit.

if there are active codes, you need to figure those out first. you may be misinterpreting them.



i'm not entirely certain that one can "bench test" so to speak the secondary injectors. i think many expect them to be operating when it is normal behavior for them not to be.



if the bike doesn't pull hard up top, first check is fuel pressure and flow. simple enough.
OK Tary I ve checked all the sources from the fuel pomp pressure ,rail injection ,all fuel hoses everything works well .but when I tested the signal using multimeter I found out that there is no signal sent from ECU to the secondary fuel rail injection .no signal
Balou900 is offline  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 10:23 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: shithole o' Nor Cal
Posts: 4,591
Thanks: 953
Thanked 627 Times in 584 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
If bike is not above 7krpm maybe no signal is OK?

I'm at end of knowledge, follow wibbly's advice!
tary preisser is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 10:34 AM
BOTY 2014 Winner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,441
Thanks: 13
Thanked 998 Times in 818 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
what signal are you looking for? what were you measuring?
wibbly is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
if there is an active fuel injector fault, the fuel pump won't prime.
Thank wibbly for your answer .yes you are totally right even when the injector plugs are unplugged the pump won't prime
Balou900 is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
what signal are you looking for? what were you measuring?
OK my friend Wibbly . im measuring the voltage from the ECU to the injectors by testing the two wires of the injector plug (black white wire and the yellow wire) but there is no reading of voltage. But when I test (black white wire ) and (the frame ) I found a voltage reading .
Balou900 is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
OP, wibbly has responded, be diligent in working through the advice he offers.

It's gold, and has always been spot on......

However, it seems like you should take a lantern(flashlight) and check interior of gas tank.

interior of tank should be completely free of corrosion...?

what gear/speed does the bike not reach redline? (details help)

at 4-5 k rpm the 2ndary (upper) fuel rail is not active, and in 1st gear, the bike is hypersensitive to throttle inputs.

I've had times when the bike surges a few hundred rpm's with the steadiest throttle I could maintain in 1st gear at 4-6k rpm.

These bikes aren't meant to be silky smooth and steady at lower rpms, theyre meant to be ridden hard in upper 1/2 of rpm range.

This doesn't explain why the bike won't hit redline in lower gears...what is behavior as it gets to high rpms and then fails to reach redline?
Tary im going to explain to you what the bike does .
When I start the bike all is fine after 3 seconds the engine light starts blinking and when I give it a maximum gas it won't reach redline it stays in 13 RPM even when I tested it on the road it does the same thing for all gears .you feel like the bike is not powerful .
Balou900 is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 05:49 PM
BOTY 2014 Winner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,441
Thanks: 13
Thanked 998 Times in 818 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
the black/white will always be 12v energized

the ECU switches the yellows to ground to turn the injectors on.


under what conditions are you trying to measure the voltage? engine running and throttle wide open? RPMs up? how are you able to do this? are you just in your garage with your bike banging the rev limiter while you're trying to get a measurement?




you need to get the codes off the bike. have you had the airbox off recently? did you hook up the MAP sensor?
wibbly is offline  
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
the black/white will always be 12v energized

the ECU switches the yellows to ground to turn the injectors on.


under what conditions are you trying to measure the voltage? engine running and throttle wide open? RPMs up? how are you able to do this? are you just in your garage with your bike banging the rev limiter while you're trying to get a measurement?




you need to get the codes off the bike. have you had the airbox off recently? did you hook up the MAP sensor?
My dear friend Wibbly don't worry I'm a mechanical I'm in this field from 2006 we can both understand each other very clearly 👍 .
Yes I do the measuring while the engine is running and throttle wide open
Let me tell you how I do this .all plugs are plugged everything is in place I insert wires in the back side of the injector plug and I do my measuring . I will show you an example in picture .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190426_120904_6_1556831102202.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	92.4 KB
ID:	201007  
Balou900 is offline  
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:15 PM
BOTY 2014 Winner
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,441
Thanks: 13
Thanked 998 Times in 818 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
you need to get to the bottom of your codes first


also, you need to verify the exact conditions under which the secondaries are supposed to fire. if the bike is in neutral they may not be enabled.


have you done it on a rear stand with the bike in gear?

Last edited by wibbly; 05-02-2019 at 05:19 PM.
wibbly is offline  
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balou900 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
the black/white will always be 12v energized

the ECU switches the yellows to ground to turn the injectors on.


under what conditions are you trying to measure the voltage? engine running and throttle wide open? RPMs up? how are you able to do this? are you just in your garage with your bike banging the rev limiter while you're trying to get a measurement?




you need to get the codes off the bike. have you had the airbox off recently? did you hook up the MAP sensor?
My dear friend Wibbly don't worry I'm a mechanical I'm in this field from 2006 we can both understand each other very clearly 👍 .
Yes I do the measuring while the engine is running and throttle wide open
Let me tell you how I do this .all plugs are plugged everything is in place I insert wires in the back side of the injector plug and I do my measuring . I will show you an example in picture .
For example
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190426_120904_6_resize_72_1556832894239.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	73.0 KB
ID:	201011  
Balou900 is offline  
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
you need to get to the bottom of your codes first


also, you need to verify the exact conditions under which the secondaries are supposed to fire. if the bike is in neutral they may not be enabled.


have you done it on a rear stand with the bike in gear?
OK Wibbly i have cleared the bike from all faulty codes and now the only blinking codes are 5 long 6 short
Finally I found out something .the first owner didn't tell me all the truth all historic of the bike . and this previous days I went back to him and he told me that the he have done a Bypass for the ECU .when I went back to check the ECU I noticed something hidden under the code bar sticker . I took it off and I found a big big huge damage huge whole hidden with silicone. So I used some special products to take off all that silicone and I found a big damage some parts was missing .two capacitors was destroyed .look at this pictures:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190425_125027_1556834326130.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	93.9 KB
ID:	201013   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190425_125027_1556834767894.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	92.6 KB
ID:	201015   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190425_124924_1556834887748.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	201017  

Last edited by Balou900; 05-02-2019 at 06:09 PM.
Balou900 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Balou900 For This Useful Post:
tary preisser (05-02-2019)
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 11:15 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: shithole o' Nor Cal
Posts: 4,591
Thanks: 953
Thanked 627 Times in 584 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Wow, why would anyone do that?
tary preisser is offline  
post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
Training Wheel Hero
 
Balou900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
Wow, why would anyone do that?
Yes my friend Tary . now I'm going to buy another ECU . I will tell you any new about it
Balou900 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Balou900 For This Useful Post:
tary preisser (05-03-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 600RR.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upper Fuel Rail wont Spray bmac7599 Troubleshooting 78 06-29-2018 03:04 PM
Removing fuel line from fuel rail mran556 Engine Tech 3 03-30-2014 07:48 PM
Poor poor poor bike. Strychnos Pictures & Video/Sound Clips 32 07-13-2008 12:49 PM
New fairings; to spray or not to spray? NelsonMXMarc 03-06 RR Modifications 7 07-11-2008 05:07 PM
Poor poor 600rr :( JeremyS General Discussion 32 02-06-2006 06:57 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome