Conventional Oil vs Full Synthetic Oil - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Conventional Oil vs Full Synthetic Oil

Hey there,

So, im posting this because i havent found any real answers to this question... I have seen some people asking this question but no real answer.

I took my bike for a medium service 10k. The mechanic (whom i really trust) told me i should just get conventional oil. He actually has all the synthetic oils such as motul, rotella, etc etc. He said if i wanted to, he could just go ahead and put synthetic oil, but doesnt recommend it for sportbikes. He did mention that oem is conventional and i should just stick to it. I asked him why and he stated that synthetics may cause clutch slippage in the future.

I do trust him as a mechanic, but is that really true? Anyways, i did go ahead and just have him put conventional Maxima oil, which is what he uses for most sportbikes.

So my question is... For our Cbr600rr bikes... Is it better to put conventional over synthetic? I have a 2007 cbr600rr with exactly 10,000 miles on it now.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 01:49 AM
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I'm running Motul 5100 in my 03, never had an issue.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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How long have you had it?

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 02:00 AM
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That's a first.

As far as oils are concerned, clutch slippage is known to occur from using resource or energy conserving oils which contain friction modifiers, not from synthetic oils holding the JASO MA certification that are designed for wet clutch applications; meaning they are formulated to not cause clutch slippage. I say he is making sh1t up.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
That's a first.

As far as oils are concerned, clutch slippage is known to occur from using resource or energy conserving oils which contain friction modifiers, not from synthetic oils holding the JASO MA certification that are designed for wet clutch applications; meaning they are formulated to not cause clutch slippage. I say he is making sh1t up.
I dont think he is making **** up. He may be wrong and maybe dont know much about oils, but he sure is one of the best/trusted motorbike mechanics i know here in SD. Honestly, he could actually be making more money if he were to sell me full synthetic since they cost more, but he told me just go with conventional. In fact, he also checked my spark plugs and said i dont need to change them yet. Usually, other shady mechanics will tell you that you need them changed even though you really dont need em just for the money.

Anyways, it was a really good info i got from you. It is something i wasnt aware of in the full synthetic oils. Im actually planning to wait 3k miles and planning to try motul full synthetic on my next oil change. Or is there another one that most cbr riders put?

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 03:15 AM
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You can always try both oils and see what you 'feel'.

I'm not saying your mechanic is shady, he seems like a decent guy but I just offered you the research. The whole JASO MA rating exists for a reason, to discount all the science behind it for one honest mechanic's opinion is just not wise in my book

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 03:45 AM
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He probably need to refresh his oil knowledge.

A lot has changed since the 80s.

Our bike can take mineral, semi and synthetic without issue depending on your usage.

Semi and Synthetic basically increase the life of the oil, In theory you can replace them less often.

Our Honda dealer in NZ used Motul 5100 for all their servicing which is a semi synthetic oil.

I used Motul 7100 which is full synthetic recently and it seems to make the engine run smoother.

The full synthetic oil also seems to have better resistance to heat which may contribute to the extra smoothness when I went from 5100 to 7100.

Here's a nice write up on Honda oil by Honda Canada
http://motorcycle.honda.ca/Content/m...cations-en.pdf

The GN4 which I suspect is what you get from most dealer in America is Mineral based oil (not semi synthetic and not synthetic)
This is their "entry level" "general purpose" oil

Then you can get HP4 andHP4M which is semi synthetic (equivalent to Motul 5100)

All the way to HP4S which is full synthetic (equivalent to Motul 7100 or maybe even 300V (this is the top of the range on the Motul range)


To answer your question, which one is better?
Make sure you have the right weight 10W40 too heavy 10w50 and it will mess with your CCT. There has been report of CCT failing or becomes noisy by people running heavier oil.

Mineral V Semi V Full?
Depend with your usage and how much you want to spend.

If you live in easy climate (not too hot and not too cold) and only use it for road use without staying at the high RPM for too long. Mineral is ok Semi is better.

If you ride at high rpm a lot (e.g. track use) or live in hot climate (temperature above 30 degrees celcius)
Go with Semi or Full Synthetic.

For track bike that get the oil changed more often (ever 1 or 2 track days)
Theoretically you can run mineral as you will change the oil before it has a chance to break down; but for the small price difference of semi synthetic why not go the extra little bit.


I hope this helps and if there is anything that I may have gotten wrong, feel free to correct it.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 03:47 AM
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Just to add, different oil can give different feeling in gear shift because our clutch and gearbox is lubricated by engine oil (unlike car which has separate gearbox oil)

Therefore, do experiment try different oil and see how they feel.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinonz View Post
Just to add, different oil can give different feeling in gear shift because our clutch and gearbox is lubricated by engine oil (unlike car which has separate gearbox oil)

Therefore, do experiment try different oil and see how they feel.
True, I have always felt that fully synthetic felt the smoothest during shifting.

All in all, synthetic will outperform all other oil types.

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Last edited by Rad Rage; 11-19-2014 at 05:06 AM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown126 View Post
How long have you had it?
Bought it in July, has 37000km on the clock, almost 41000 now.

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I'd rather be next to a rider that can maintain a controlled wheelie than a muppet on their phone.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-19-2014, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown126 View Post
He may be wrong and maybe dont know much about oils, but he sure is one of the best/trusted motorbike mechanics i know here in SD.
Read that a couple times, and you see what we're all laughing at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown126 View Post
I have seen some people asking this question but no real answer.
Really? The question has been answered in depth MANY times.

Use whatever makes you happy. I put 50K miles on a 600RR in 22 months, and used full synth the entire time. Never a single issue. I use Rotella T6 in my RSV4.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinonz View Post
He probably need to refresh his oil knowledge.

A lot has changed since the 80s.

Our bike can take mineral, semi and synthetic without issue depending on your usage.

Semi and Synthetic basically increase the life of the oil, In theory you can replace them less often.

Our Honda dealer in NZ used Motul 5100 for all their servicing which is a semi synthetic oil.

I used Motul 7100 which is full synthetic recently and it seems to make the engine run smoother.

The full synthetic oil also seems to have better resistance to heat which may contribute to the extra smoothness when I went from 5100 to 7100.

Here's a nice write up on Honda oil by Honda Canada
http://motorcycle.honda.ca/Content/m...cations-en.pdf

The GN4 which I suspect is what you get from most dealer in America is Mineral based oil (not semi synthetic and not synthetic)
This is their "entry level" "general purpose" oil

Then you can get HP4 andHP4M which is semi synthetic (equivalent to Motul 5100)

All the way to HP4S which is full synthetic (equivalent to Motul 7100 or maybe even 300V (this is the top of the range on the Motul range)


To answer your question, which one is better?
Make sure you have the right weight 10W40 too heavy 10w50 and it will mess with your CCT. There has been report of CCT failing or becomes noisy by people running heavier oil.

Mineral V Semi V Full?
Depend with your usage and how much you want to spend.

If you live in easy climate (not too hot and not too cold) and only use it for road use without staying at the high RPM for too long. Mineral is ok Semi is better.

If you ride at high rpm a lot (e.g. track use) or live in hot climate (temperature above 30 degrees celcius)
Go with Semi or Full Synthetic.

For track bike that get the oil changed more often (ever 1 or 2 track days)
Theoretically you can run mineral as you will change the oil before it has a chance to break down; but for the small price difference of semi synthetic why not go the extra little bit.


I hope this helps and if there is anything that I may have gotten wrong, feel free to correct it.
I try to go for alot of curvy mountain rides for knee dragging. I didnt know about the gearshiftinf changes. I may wanna try semi now. Thanks alot for the info!

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2000 Honda Civic Sedan AT - DD
2005 Honda Accord Sedan AT - DD
2007 Honda CBR600rr - Pleasure
2005 Yamaha R6 - RIP
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-25-2014, 11:29 PM
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Conventional oil is fine.

Use synthetic or name brand oil if you wish, but it is not needed. I used Rotella in the blue bottle at Walmart for the life of my 06RR riding both street and track without a single issue.

It also comes down to maintenance and how you ride your bike. IMO synthetic oil is not needed if you ride your bike normally and keep up with your regular maintenance. Synthetic is better of course, but use it if you ride your bike hard or for long distances. Most people who never hit 20k miles and just ride normally on the street will never know the difference between conv and syn oils.

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